Help Required! | Assistance Appreciated!

[Deadmano]

Hi there guys! :smile: I just want to let you know before I decided to make my own topic, I did extensive research and spent hours trying to figure out my issue on my own, to no avail... This topic was especially useful, but alas didn't quite solve my CTD Issues that seem to randomly happen outdoors (haven't had a chance to test indoors or actually plat the game yet).

 

I am running the Legendary Edition, patched Skyrim to the latest steam version, using the SKSE launcher, in combination with ENB and SweetFX.

 

So first off lets share my PC specs so that we can rule out an over-powered configuration on my end;

 

 

 

Processor:

Intel Core i7-3770k (4.20 GHz)

Memory:

Corsair Vengeance Low Profile (16384MB, 2 x 8096 DDR3-SDRAM, 1600MHz)

Hard Drive:

1x OCZ Vertex 3 (120GB), 1x Seagate 4TB HDD, 1x Western Digital HDD 3TB, 1x Seagate 3TB HDD

Video Card:

ASUS HD 7970 DirectCU II (GDDR5, 384-BIT, 3GB)

Monitor:

32" Sony Bravia BX350 LCD TV

Speakers/Headphones:

Razer Tiamat (7.1 True Surround Sound Headset)

Keyboard:

Razer BlackWidow 2013 Ultimate Stealth Edition (Mechanical)

Mouse:

Razer Ouroboros (8200dpi 4G)

Mouse Surface:

Razer Goliathus Extended (Speed Edition)

Operating System:

Windows 7 Ultimate 64-Bit

Motherboard:

MSI Z77A-GD65 Gaming

Computer Case:

Cooler Master Cosmos II

 

 

 

So now that we've got that out of the way, let me share my mod load order;

 

 

Skyrim.esm=1
Update.esm=1
Dawnguard.esm=1
HearthFires.esm=1
Dragonborn.esm=1
ClimatesOfTamriel.esm=1
SkyMoMod.esm=1
SPIKE.esm=1
Solstheim Climate Overhaul.esm=1
HighResTexturePack01.esp=1
HighResTexturePack02.esp=1
HighResTexturePack03.esp=1
Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp=1
Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp=1
Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp=1
Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp=1
Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp=1
StaticMeshImprovementMod.esp=1
StaticMeshImprovementMod-DragonbornTernFix.esp=1
CS_TagAndTrack.esp=1
JBS_banking_redux.esp=0
Skyrim Flora Overhaul.esp=1
SFO - Expanded Diversity.esp=1
Grass_On_Steroids_SFO.esp=1
Grassification_SFO.esp=1
SwiftPotion.esp=1
Convenient Horses.esp=1
Convenient Horses - Faster Sprint.esp=1
RaceMenu.esp=1
RaceMenuPlugin.esp=1
vAutosaveManager.esp=1
SkyUI.esp=1
hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp=1
LeatherBackpackBlack-100.esp=0
Hoodless Archmage Robes.esp=1
Immersive Weapons.esp=1
Proper Aiming.esp=1
SoS - The Dungeons.esp=1
SoS - The Wilds.esp=1
SoS - Civilization.esp=1
ClimatesOfTamriel-Sound.esp=1
EnhancedLightsandFX.esp=1
ClimatesOfTamriel-Dawnguard-Patch.esp=1
ClimatesOfTamriel-Dragonborn-Patch.esp=1
ClimatesOfTamriel-Dungeons-Hazardous.esp=1
ClimatesOfTamriel-Interiors-Warm.esp=1
ClimatesOfTamriel-Nights-Level-2.esp=1
SoS - The Wilds-PatchCoTSounds.esp=1
SoS - Civilization -PatchCoTSounds.esp=1
SoS - Civilization-PatchCoT.esp=0
Apocalypse - The Spell Package.esp=1
Duel - Combat Realism.esp=1
ACE Realistic Fighting.esp=1
ACE BYOG.esp=1
ACE Speech.esp=1
ACE Archery.esp=1
ACE Armor.esp=1
ACE Enchanting.esp=1
ACE Magic.esp=1
ACE Melee.esp=1
ACE Smithing.esp=1
ACE Synergy.esp=1
UFO - Ultimate Follower Overhaul.esp=1
UFO - Dawnguard AddOn.esp=1
UFO - Heartfire AddOn.esp=1
Amanda.esp=1
Lyla.esp=1
Michelle.esp=1
Misha.esp=1
Extended Slider Colors.esp=1
Purewaters.esp=1
PurewatersDG.esp=1
PurewatersDB.esp=1
DeazurainLoadout.esp=1
ASIS-Dependency.esp=1
Solstheim Climate Overhaul - COT compatibility.esp=1
dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp=1
dD-DG-DB-MonsterMod EBT Patch.esp=1
FunctionalHomes.esp=1
skyrimaguas_Bigger Better Sun & Moons.esp=0

 

 

 

Obviously 1's meaning enabled and 0's meaning disabled.

 

What I was hoping for was someone with more experience with using mods (who has used plenty of them, in conjunction with numerous others) to help establish what may be the problematic cause here... I know texture mods can be taxing, and if you look through my list you'll notice there are a lot of Ultra High Definition mods, and I have installed plenty of texture packs such as Skyrim HD, Vurt's Flora Overhaul (with hi-res trees), quite a few LOD mods, an insane 4k rocks retexture and several others in conjunction with the games HD Texture Pack.

 

If all of that is still in order, I wish to share my enbseries.ini file;

http://pastebin.com/TNbKH04C

 

On a side note: I had the DoF enabled in that .ini file above, but I disabled it as it would blur out everything but the specific thing that my mouse was aiming at, more or less. Now I know DoF is meant to do something like this, but I mean it isn't quite immersive when strolling through the woods hoping to see all your HD textures at work, when everything is a blur...

 

Here's how my game looks though;

 

 

Overall

http://i43.tinypic.com/333e99g.jpg

 

The "Blur" Effect

http://i44.tinypic.com/24ovouc.jpg

 

 

 

That's running in the games ULTRA preset, with ENB & SweetFX and a handful of HD Retextures.

 

Also, I had read that SweetFX & ENB can be used together, as I got the files from the same mod to make Climates of Tamriel look its best, that wouldn't be conflicting right? Also, I remember before for some other ENB supported games you had to disable AA and some other ingame settings, or force some in your GPU center, are any of this still valid, anything I would need to change?

 

Here are my Skyrim.ini and SkyrimPrefs.ini files, in case I may have added some lines that are conflicting.

 

Skyrim.ini: http://pastebin.com/gpBcgsfm

SkyrimPrefs.ini: http://pastebin.com/SFfsXfeN

 

On a closing note, I was told that creating a Bash Patch could resolve any issues I may be having? Would this be suggested given the above, and if so, does one simply copy all the files and create a patch from all of them and put that patch at the bottom of the load order? Because I believe that is the way I did it when I heavily modded Fallout: New Vegas.

 

If there is any other information that would assist in being assisted, please do let me know and I'll respond. I am really amped to get back into Skyrim, as I'm sure many of you can understand... I had previously finished the game, using my save from back when by the way, but since I got the Legendary edition I am continuing my trek and trying to tie up some loose ends and do the DLC's!

 

Eagerly awaiting a response, and any and all feedback would be extremely appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to read this, even that is much appreciated!

[Purr4me]

• JBS_banking_redux.esp=0
• LeatherBackpackBlack-100.esp=0
• skyrimaguas_Bigger Better Sun & Moons.esp=0

narrowed list, remove any data that comes with those mods listed, AKA, textures and mesh files and place them along with these files listed into a separate folder for safe keeping, in the order of the mods them selves if any such data is there.

 

NOTE: Though you are running maxed out and full on high rez game, some of the data may not be set that way. some textures and mesh files may not be set to handle these settings.

 

read the other pages. basically you have a conflict known to be hidden. the one way to get an idea is to back up that entire game structure and proceed to deduct the data contained in what you now have.

 

I can provide the needed software to check the data made by a user that made the texture optimizer, or lander and another , there are two programs used.

 

what your after is the listed textures that IT finds, copy and pasted to a text document after it optimizes every piece of data in the game folder.

then you replace that data if it messes up the game, if not, it may fix the issue, but, your after the knowledge it provides you with, the data it finds out of wack, you can extract individually to a separate work folder and use those tools to fix them and inspect them afterwards.

 

this gives a narrowed down set of textures and source of possible bottlenecks running in such a high stakes game environment.

your playing on the cutting edge, if so, there is no reason not to do this research. Isolate and Identify the culprits involved.

 

in the process and test run of the test game, you find things like red Exclamation objects, know that those are textures that do not match the mesh data calling them, they are not mesh files, the optimizer does not edit mesh files, only textures. so those can be targeted in game, and ID's and associated to the specific mods causing conflicts such as you describe here.

 

there is a method to this madness and it all pans out if your willing to take the challenge and just do it. when the programs complete. don't close them, you need to copy the text it provides to a text document. that info can be posted in a paste-bin file for every one to look at and know what needs to be fixed.

Kitty.

[Deadmano]

 

• JBS_banking_redux.esp=0
• LeatherBackpackBlack-100.esp=0
• skyrimaguas_Bigger Better Sun & Moons.esp=0

narrowed list, remove any data that comes with those mods listed, AKA, textures and mesh files and place them along with these files listed into a separate folder for safe keeping, in the order of the mods them selves if any such data is there.

 

NOTE: Though you are running maxed out and full on high rez game, some of the data may not be set that way. some textures and mesh files may not be set to handle these settings.

 

read the other pages. basically you have a conflict known to be hidden. the one way to get an idea is to back up that entire game structure and proceed to deduct the data contained in what you now have.

 

I can provide the needed software to check the data made by a user that made the texture optimizer, or lander and another , there are two programs used.

 

what your after is the listed textures that IT finds, copy and pasted to a text document after it optimizes every piece of data in the game folder.

then you replace that data if it messes up the game, if not, it may fix the issue, but, your after the knowledge it provides you with, the data it finds out of wack, you can extract individually to a separate work folder and use those tools to fix them and inspect them afterwards.

 

this gives a narrowed down set of textures and source of possible bottlenecks running in such a high stakes game environment.

your playing on the cutting edge, if so, there is no reason not to do this research. Isolate and Identify the culprits involved.

 

in the process and test run of the test game, you find things like red Exclamation objects, know that those are textures that do not match the mesh data calling them, they are not mesh files, the optimizer does not edit mesh files, only textures. so those can be targeted in game, and ID's and associated to the specific mods causing conflicts such as you describe here.

 

there is a method to this madness and it all pans out if your willing to take the challenge and just do it. when the programs complete. don't close them, you need to copy the text it provides to a text document. that info can be posted in a paste-bin file for every one to look at and know what needs to be fixed.

Kitty.

 

Kitty... Wow, that's quite a mouth full, and I definitely wasn't expecting such a reply, although it must be me as I can't seem to decipher any of what you were trying to explain! :(

 

I get the first part, with those mods I disabled I should remove their resources... But yeah, the rest I still can't make out... So what does the program you mention do exactly? It's just textures, so replacing the new modded textures with the programs fix is meant to do something?

 

I can easily tell at a glance what would be causing the massive impact, but I do believe that they were well optimized so shouldn't really be causing an issue, hence why I wanted an in-depth analysis of the .ini files to see if there isn't something I butchered that may be causing this, or perhaps a conflicting mod.

 

I am up for a challenge though, so if work needs to be done, just lay it on me, I will think of something, hehehe! ;)

 

But I really do appreciate your reply nonetheless, and if I somewhat did understand what you were getting at, I will check with those "bottleneck" textures and remove them temporarily to see how that goes... Although I honestly would much rather prefer a "fix" to enjoy those graphics, I know this is way above our time for current gen RPG's! And it'll sadden me that TESO will be no where near this level of graphics capability, but the gameplay and world is on another level so that makes up for it.

[prod80]

Can you download Skyrim Performance Monitor ... configure it to start up with SKSE if you use (or any other launcher) tick the experimental box inside of the config to support ENB ... run it until you crash ... then post a screenshot of it, please. To rule out system resource / application limit related causes.

 

You gotta understand that even if you have 32GB RAM and a SLI GTX780 running under Windows 7 64 bit, your game "Skyrim" is still 32 bit running under DirectX9 - so the same rules apply as any other LAA 32bit application: Max 4GB of memory usage (in real world this translates to roughly 3.2GB before the game crashes) and besides that DirectX9 mirrors your VRAM into RAM (you will see in Performance Monitor VRAM and RAM usage following the same patterns)

... result:

Too high resolution and too many textures = CTD

 

... not because your system is technically not able to handle it

 

 

Based on your screenshot you run pretty heavy texture mods (especially a lot of flora), can be a possible (or likely) cause of exterior CTD.

 

 

I have installed plenty of texture packs such as Skyrim HD, Vurt's Flora Overhaul (with hi-res trees), quite a few LOD mods, an insane 4k rocks retexture and several others in conjunction with the games HD Texture Pack.

 

Goodluck with that. I have a high end system as well and I cannot use 4K Skyrim HD or other extreme high resolution textures. I will CTD. If you wanna replace all textures, fine - but then use "Lite" 2K versions, also for those rocks... I think I know which one you mean and those are 4K Uncompressed (dont miss that word) textures of about 20-30MB each, that is simply and utterly completely insane. The author also writes down not to use those textures for playing, only screenshots "screen arching".

 

Your game will look awesome, even with those 2K textures (2048 x 2048) if you compare that to vanilla textures (256x256 or 512x512) it is still 64x - 16x higher resolution. You really do not need higher resolution textures.

 

When you got your game stable, you can add (carefully) more textures, monitoring your resources while you do it. You could start perhaps by replacing the tree textures to 4K (not 8K) and see how that goes.

 

I have gone to the point to manually select textures and replace just a single texture by a higher resolution one, just because that was still possible (replacing all would cause the application to run over it's limitations) and I run stable now at the very edges of what it can do... My RAM usage is between 1.7 and 3.1GB averaging about on 2.5 - 2.7GB, VRAM following more or less the same, I dont dare to add anything more really :biggrin:

[Deadmano]

Can you download Skyrim Performance Monitor ... configure it to start up with SKSE if you use (or any other launcher) ... run it until you crash ... then post a screenshot of it, please. To rule out system resource / application limit related causes.

 

Based on your screenshot you run pretty heavy texture mods (especially a lot of flora), can be a possible (or likely) cause of exterior CTD.

Hi there prod80, and thanks for the reply!! :) This is something I should have thought of, but with so many things to think of, it can easily be overlooked, that's why there's this awesome community!! :D

 

I will download and set it up, then get back to this topic with the results, thanks! :)

[prod80]

Yes please, I edited the post above with some more info btw... post the results, we can work from there to fix it. If resources are ruled out then we can go to mods, but I'm pretty sure you're simply pushing it too high (been there, done that :P)

[Deadmano]

Yes please, I edited the post above with some more info btw... post the results, we can work from there to fix it. If resources are ruled out then we can go to mods, but I'm pretty sure you're simply pushing it too high (been there, done that :P)

Hey there!! :smile: So I ran Skyrim via TeamViewer, as I'm at work, quite a feat mind you! :P Past the lag and all, managed to get it all running, ran about in the problem occurring area, but sadly I didn't crash for over 10 minutes so I just gave up, with some stats though! :wink:

 

The area is heavily populated with a lot of flora, trees, grass, rocks everywhere! And this is what the monitor has to say;

 

http://i39.tinypic.com/30ws46w.jpg

 

Quite interesting, to see the CPU usage so low, and the GPU temperature reaching an all time high, hahaha! But yeah, I knew of the RAM limitations before I got into the whole modding process, and thought I would "just" make it due to some tweaks I had... But according to the above it seems I do "just" make it? But further testing shall be done with proper gameplay when I get home...

 

I will take your word for it and switch my textures from Ultra to High or Medium where applicable, starting with the trees. There's no point enjoying such a vivid and realistic playthrough if you keep crashing every X minutes... Although I do have the AutoSaveManager enabled to save every 3 minutes (the game's default autosaves have been disabled of course).

 

So what would be the most prudent course of action from here on out? I was contemplating spreading Skyrim via NTFS junction to my SSD, to improve texture loading somewhat, do you think there would be any performance gain (not that I need it for FPS as it runs quite smoothly, even with all this thrown at it)?

 

EDIT: I have the Skyrim High Resolution Texture Pack (the one Bethesda released), if I didn't make that clear, so obviously those other texture replacers will overwrite them when possible... That wouldn't cause any issues, right? And I never knew the game had such low textures, would have thought they were around 1k (with the texture pack)!

Edited July 3, 2013 by Deadmano

[prod80]

For the Performance Monitor to actually show something, need to have data from a crash...

 

Gratz on running it remotely tho ... lol :biggrin:

 

They are 1k with the highres pack yes...

I also use that... I have actually unpacked them into loose files and removed from my load order. And overinstalled them with whatever replacers I use....

 

Judging from my own system

 

• Static Mesh Improvement Mod - Install first and when asked to overwrite on any of the below, overwrite everything except anything related to Farms (you can see Farmpole or something like that when installing Skyrim HD Towns and Cities)
• Skyrim HD 4K - replace with 2K (all versions)
• If you use ENB - Project Parallax: install everything except Rocks and Windhelm (Windhelm will have you CTD) for Skyrim HD. If no ENB, don't install it has no effect
• SFO, remove 1.79e and install the Basic version 1.81 so you can use better LODs for the trees. You can use AOF 4K tree LOD version for that (not as heavy as it sounds - SFO uses 4K LODs already...)
• SFO High Res Pines, use the 4K version not 8K. Edit SkyrimPrefs.ini and set [Trees] uiMaxSkinnedTreesToRender=24 - do not try and render more Trees :wink: the game default is 20.
• I also use Overgrown (SFO optional) as I do not want a flowery landscape - adds more grass, removes flowers
• LODs you can use the High versions from both AOF and the High Quality LODs package (textures/meshes)
• TreesHD - use the High version, not Ultra
• Those rock textures, use the 2K version of your choice
• Lush Trees and Grass - install only the Grass module, not Trees!
• Grass on Steroids. After that change Skyrim.ini and set under [Grass] iMinGrassSize=75 to reduce load by a lot
• ... Got a whole bunch more, wouldnt know for sure which out of my head right now :smile: (also at work)

 

Using SSD instead of HDD doesnt not give you better performance as in FPS or stability... it does reduce load time... it wont prevent load screen hanging.

 

 

 

Edit: Btw, you VRAM/RAM usage in that screenshot is nothing significant... I would however be interested in crash data... even so... replacing your textures to a bit lighter version will save you many headaches later on when adding more textures... (armors, weapons, bodies, effects, etc etc etc etc etc)...

 

If system resources are fine, then we can look into mods causing problems...

[Deadmano]

For the Performance Monitor to actually show something, need to have data from a crash...

 

Gratz on running it remotely tho ... lol :biggrin:

 

They are 1k with the highres pack yes...

I also use that... I have actually unpacked them into loose files and removed from my load order. And overinstalled them with whatever replacers I use....

 

Judging from my own system

 

• Static Mesh Improvement Mod - Install first and when asked to overwrite on any of the below, overwrite everything except anything related to Farms (you can see Farmpole or something like that when installing Skyrim HD Towns and Cities)
• Skyrim HD 4K - replace with 2K (all versions)
• If you use ENB - Project Parallax: install everything except Rocks and Windhelm (Windhelm will have you CTD) for Skyrim HD. If no ENB, don't install it has no effect
• SFO, remove 1.79e and install the Basic version 1.81 so you can use better LODs for the trees. You can use AOF 4K tree LOD version for that (not as heavy as it sounds - SFO uses 4K LODs already...)
• SFO High Res Pines, use the 4K version not 8K. Edit SkyrimPrefs.ini and set [Trees] uiMaxSkinnedTreesToRender=24 - do not try and render more Trees :wink: the game default is 20.
• I also use Overgrown (SFO optional) as I do not want a flowery landscape - adds more grass, removes flowers
• LODs you can use the High versions from both AOF and the High Quality LODs package (textures/meshes)
• TreesHD - use the High version, not Ultra
• Those rock textures, use the 2K version of your choice
• Lush Trees and Grass - install only the Grass module, not Trees!
• Grass on Steroids. After that change Skyrim.ini and set under [Grass] iMinGrassSize=75 to reduce load by a lot
• ... Got a whole bunch more, wouldnt know for sure which out of my head right now :smile: (also at work)

 

Using SSD instead of HDD doesnt not give you better performance as in FPS or stability... it does reduce load time... it wont prevent load screen hanging.

Hey there again, prod80! :) Thanks for the in-depth reply, you're the man! :D I will definitely apply all this when I get home... And I will try unpacking those highres Bethesda textures and removing them from my load order! :) Wondering if it'll conflict with the Skyrim Unofficial High Resolution Patch though?

 

I had my fiance play around a bit with my game and eventually it did freeze (not crash) when I think she was trying to Fast Travel... So here's the screenshot of that;

http://i44.tinypic.com/30igpx4.jpg

 

Other than that, it didn't seem to crash, at all!! Which is quite surprising... Would you mind checking my ini files, mainly the Skyrim ones, when you get a chance? I am worried I may have done something foolish somewhere, and that is what is causing issues... I installed that HQ3D Map, you will see the lines for it in SkyrimPrefs.ini (my one), however I don't see much of an improvement on the map? Or it must have been a long time since I saw the map and can't tell the difference?

 

I decided to try this ENB preset tonight: http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/30936

[prod80]

 

Hey there again, prod80! :smile: Thanks for the in-depth reply, you're the man! :biggrin: I will definitely apply all this when I get home... And I will try unpacking those highres Bethesda textures and removing them from my load order! :smile: Wondering if it'll conflict with the Skyrim Unofficial High Resolution Patch though?

 

I had my fiance play around a bit with my game and eventually it did freeze (not crash) when I think she was trying to Fast Travel... So here's the screenshot of that;

 

 

Other than that, it didn't seem to crash, at all!! Which is quite surprising... Would you mind checking my ini files, mainly the Skyrim ones, when you get a chance? I am worried I may have done something foolish somewhere, and that is what is causing issues... I installed that HQ3D Map, you will see the lines for it in SkyrimPrefs.ini (my one), however I don't see much of an improvement on the map? Or it must have been a long time since I saw the map and can't tell the difference?

 

I decided to try this ENB preset tonight: http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/30936

 

 

You will have to unpack the Unofficial highres bsa as well...

 

Do it like this...

 

Unpack Highres bsa pack 1 into a folder... inside this folder make sure Skyrim folder structure is followed... Starting with Data\<subfolders>

Unpack Highres pack 2 and 3 to the same folder all following the correct structure

Unpack the Unofficial bsa as well in the same folder, overwrite when asked

 

Now, zip/rar/7z or whatever this whole Data folder (so the archive inside starts with "Data") and when this is done open NMM -> Mods tab -> Add -> From file -> Pick your new archive...

 

Then install with NMM and do not overwrite anything!!!

 

Now you have the highres files, managed by NMM so you can easily uninstall,reinstall,overwrite,edit,optimize,whatever when required...

 

of course you can also separately zip each Highres pack and UHRP and install in order (1, 2, 3, UHRP) overwriting the previous when asked (but not overwriting any other files of course).

 

If you dont do this method... then when you install a large overhaul you have to click "yes" in NMM for 30 minutes, as the option "Yes to mod" will not be available.... :wink:

 

Of course disable all related .esp's (uninstall them) disable/uninstall the highres DLC, and make sure the Highres bsa names are removed from Skyrim.ini / SkyrimPrefs.ini as well under

 

[Archive]

sResourceArchiveList

 

 

As the load screen hanging... I had the same behavior... resources did not spike past ~2.7-2.8GB but the screen did hang... I have done tests if this would be related to VRAM usage (and as a result RAM usage as well) and it turned out it was... removing my larger texture files solved it when I forced my system in infinite loadcsreen (I overloaded it for testing on purpose)

 

I did however seens some cases where "A Quality World Map" caused the load screen to hang, and ini settings under [MapMenu] causing various problems... [MapMenu] tweaks shouldnt be used anymore in the newer updates of Skyrim.