337 replies to this topic

[Enidehalas]

Hello, a few questions for you guys, especially you, matortheeternal

 

I've read the FAQ, but still have some questions before getting to merge my 254 esp's (yes, it's becoming urgent)

 

 

***  When you say "Q: Can I merge ESP patches into their master file?"

You mean "ESP and the file they rely on" or "ESP and their ESM ?"

If I wanted to merge Hunterborn.esp, Hunterborn_RND.esp (comp. patch) and Hunterborn_Frostfall.esp (comp. patch) together, it would work ?

Would it cause some problems with the actual RND and Frostfall mods?

Would it cause some problems if the patches are far from their "masters" ?

 

Exemple :

 

Hunterborn.esp

[MOOOOOOOOOOOODS]

RND.esp

Frostfall.esp

Hunterborn_RND.esp

Hunterborn_Frostfall.esp

 

If I follow the FAQ, I would need to put the merged esp at the place of hunterborn (imagine I can't move it because of another mod)
But that wouldn't work.

Is the best bet to merge hunterborn + FF + RND in a huge frenzy merge fest (MCMs, lots of scripts, skyre patches...) ?

 

 

 

*** If I merge 2 mods

Mod_A.esp (version 1)

Mod_B.esp (version 1)

but, Mod A gets updated to v2. I'm pretty sure I should rebuild the merge plugin, right ? But what if v2 just adds 2 new armors. Then, is there a way to merge only the 2 new armors and consider the existing armors of v1 as duplicates or something like that ? (similar ID)

 

 

*** Having 2 mods

MODA

MODB

MODA+Bpatch

Should I try to merge the patch with A or B, or should I try having a 3-way ? (ahem)

 

 

*** If a mod is used by another mod later in my load order, I shouldn't merge it, right ?

exemple :

Apachi's hair 1.2

Apachi's hair 1.4

Apachi's hair 1.5

A random mod using Apachi's hair 1.4

 

I can't merge Apachi's hair 1.2, 4 and 5 together ? Is there a way to "redirect" the random mod to use Apachi's hair MERGED instead ? (Mighty Wrye Bash, I invoke your help!)

 

 

 

Thanks ! I think I'm gonna have some fun, I have the worst merging/load order possible (frostfall, skyre, CCO, automatic variants and a million of of other replacers at once, each one with millions of patches for each other)

Edited by Enidehalas, 31 August 2014 - 07:39 PM.

[matortheeternal]

***  When you say "Q: Can I merge ESP patches into their master file?"
You mean "ESP and the file they rely on" or "ESP and their ESM ?"

ESP and the file they rely on. In some cases that file is an ESM, in other cases it could be an ESP. ESM is a file of the "Bethesda Master File" type, and is often used as a master for other files in your load order. However, you can use ESP files as masters just as well (as has been demonstrated by innumerable tools).
 

If I wanted to merge Hunterborn.esp, Hunterborn_RND.esp (comp. patch) and Hunterborn_Frostfall.esp (comp. patch) together, it would work ?
Would it cause some problems with the actual RND and Frostfall mods?
Would it cause some problems if the patches are far from their "masters" ?
 
Exemple :
 
Hunterborn.esp
[MOOOOOOOOOOOODS]
RND.esp
Frostfall.esp
Hunterborn_RND.esp
Hunterborn_Frostfall.esp
 
If I follow the FAQ, I would need to put the merged esp at the place of hunterborn (imagine I can't move it because of another mod)
But that wouldn't work.
Is the best bet to merge hunterborn + FF + RND in a huge frenzy merge fest (MCMs, lots of scripts, skyre patches...) ?

You'd probably be best just merging eveything, yeah. Or you could merge just Hunterborn and its patches and put it just below Frostfall, though I'm not sure if that would achieve the desired effect ingame (I'd have to look at the records to make sure). When I say "put the merged plugin at the highest load order position of the plugins you merged", I add the caveat "with respect to masters". So the highest you can put it at while still respecting the files that HAVE to be loaded before it because they're master files for it. So in this case, if you merged Hunterborn and its two patches, you'd have a load order like this:

[MOOOOOOOOOOOODS]
RND.esp
Frostfall.esp
Hunterborn_Merged.esp

 

*** If I merge 2 mods
Mod_A.esp (version 1)
Mod_B.esp (version 1)
but, Mod A gets updated to v2. I'm pretty sure I should rebuild the merge plugin, right ? But what if v2 just adds 2 new armors. Then, is there a way to merge only the 2 new armors and consider the existing armors of v1 as duplicates or something like that ? (similar ID)

Until v1.7 is released, you'll have to reconstruct the entire Merged Plugin again using the updated ESP. With v1.7 there will be a tool that will let you take a mod out of a Merged Plugin. So you could simply pluck the out-of-date version out of the Merged Plugin, then merge the up-to-date version in.

*** Having 2 mods
MODA
MODB
MODA+Bpatch
Should I try to merge the patch with A or B, or should I try having a 3-way ? (ahem)

Stick all three of them together. Merging more helps you more, so you might as well just stick all of them together. I, and several other users of the Merge Plugins script, choose to just merge all ESPs of a certain category into a single Mega-ESP. That includes all patches, masters, etc. It's nice, because then you can have one ESP/category of mods in your load order.
 

*** If a mod is used by another mod later in my load order, I shouldn't merge it, right ?
exemple :
Apachi's hair 1.2
Apachi's hair 1.4
Apachi's hair 1.5
A random mod using Apachi's hair 1.4
 
I can't merge Apachi's hair 1.2, 4 and 5 together ? Is there a way to "redirect" the random mod to use Apachi's hair MERGED instead ? (Mighty Wrye Bash, I invoke your help!)

This is covered in the main thread by noobzor in the comments section several times. There are several ways you could go about doing this.

1. Merge the masters and the mod that uses them into one big ESP, like I mentioned before. The advantage of this is you can just lump a bunch of stuff together and it'll work just fine.
2. Try to merge the masters together without renumbering formIDs, then change the Master reference in TES5Edit to the merged plugin instead of the original file(s). This is a bit more difficult.
 
 

Thanks ! I think I'm gonna have some fun, I have the worst merging/load order possible (frostfall, skyre, CCO, automatic variants and a million of of other replacers at once, each one with millions of patches for each other)

These days Skyrim modding is all about having a bajillion patches to get all of your mods to work together properly. In my opinion, it'd be better if those patches were generated by a single source, e.g. a Bashed Patch, and stuck into a single ESP file. This is totally possible. Heck, it'd be cool if some mods just CONSTRUCTED themselves using a script (TES5Edit script preferably). SkyRe sort of does that, but it uses SkyProc, which is lame (bad definitions, causes corrupted data).

Anywho, good luck to you.

[Enidehalas]

Wow, that's what I call giving support, thanks a lot for the extensive and quick answer !

 

 

 

 

***  When you say "Q: Can I merge ESP patches into their master file?"
You mean "ESP and the file they rely on" or "ESP and their ESM ?"

ESP and the file they rely on. In some cases that file is an ESM, in other cases it could be an ESP. ESM is a file of the "Bethesda Master File" type, and is often used as a master for other files in your load order. However, you can use ESP files as masters just as well (as has been demonstrated by innumerable tools).

 

Ok !
 

If I wanted to merge Hunterborn.esp, Hunterborn_RND.esp (comp. patch) and Hunterborn_Frostfall.esp (comp. patch) together, it would work ?
Would it cause some problems with the actual RND and Frostfall mods?
Would it cause some problems if the patches are far from their "masters" ?
 
Exemple :
 
Hunterborn.esp
[MOOOOOOOOOOOODS]
RND.esp
Frostfall.esp
Hunterborn_RND.esp
Hunterborn_Frostfall.esp
 
If I follow the FAQ, I would need to put the merged esp at the place of hunterborn (imagine I can't move it because of another mod)
But that wouldn't work.
Is the best bet to merge hunterborn + FF + RND in a huge frenzy merge fest (MCMs, lots of scripts, skyre patches...) ?

You'd probably be best just merging eveything, yeah. Or you could merge just Hunterborn and its patches and put it just below Frostfall, though I'm not sure if that would achieve the desired effect ingame (I'd have to look at the records to make sure). When I say "put the merged plugin at the highest load order position of the plugins you merged", I add the caveat "with respect to masters". So the highest you can put it at while still respecting the files that HAVE to be loaded before it because they're master files for it. So in this case, if you merged Hunterborn and its two patches, you'd have a load order like this:

[MOOOOOOOOOOOODS]
RND.esp
Frostfall.esp
Hunterborn_Merged.esp

 

That was what I wanted to try in second.

 

In first, I wanted to try RND + FF + HBorn together, with all their patches between each other, their own SkyRe patches and their own mini bashed patch.

But what drove me off is that you said that MCMs heavy scripted mods merge "not that good" (what does that mean technically ?)

 

Is it still worth trying ?

 

*** If I merge 2 mods
Mod_A.esp (version 1)
Mod_B.esp (version 1)
but, Mod A gets updated to v2. I'm pretty sure I should rebuild the merge plugin, right ? But what if v2 just adds 2 new armors. Then, is there a way to merge only the 2 new armors and consider the existing armors of v1 as duplicates or something like that ? (similar ID)

Until v1.7 is released, you'll have to reconstruct the entire Merged Plugin again using the updated ESP. With v1.7 there will be a tool that will let you take a mod out of a Merged Plugin. So you could simply pluck the out-of-date version out of the Merged Plugin, then merge the up-to-date version in.

 

Ok, since we have to renumber formIDs, it's not possible with the current version I guess. That being said, this 1.7 feature looks very promising !

 

*** Having 2 mods
MODA
MODB
MODA+Bpatch
Should I try to merge the patch with A or B, or should I try having a 3-way ? (ahem)

Stick all three of them together. Merging more helps you more, so you might as well just stick all of them together. I, and several other users of the Merge Plugins script, choose to just merge all ESPs of a certain category into a single Mega-ESP. That includes all patches, masters, etc. It's nice, because then you can have one ESP/category of mods in your load order.

 

I really like this idea of "merging more helps you more". Accentuates the feeling of creating our own personnal DLC. Really different in comparison to the oblivion merging days
 
 

*** If a mod is used by another mod later in my load order, I shouldn't merge it, right ?
exemple :
Apachi's hair 1.2
Apachi's hair 1.4
Apachi's hair 1.5
A random mod using Apachi's hair 1.4
 
I can't merge Apachi's hair 1.2, 4 and 5 together ? Is there a way to "redirect" the random mod to use Apachi's hair MERGED instead ? (Mighty Wrye Bash, I invoke your help!)

This is covered in the main thread by noobzor in the comments section several times. There are several ways you could go about doing this.

1. Merge the masters and the mod that uses them into one big ESP, like I mentioned before. The advantage of this is you can just lump a bunch of stuff together and it'll work just fine.
2. Try to merge the masters together without renumbering formIDs, then change the Master reference in TES5Edit to the merged plugin instead of the original file(s). This is a bit more difficult.
 
 Oops, I was tired, I didn't even realise this topic was NOT the main Merge Plugin Script thread !! I didn't even look the comments before posting, my bad

Thanks ! I think I'm gonna have some fun, I have the worst merging/load order possible (frostfall, skyre, CCO, automatic variants and a million of of other replacers at once, each one with millions of patches for each other)

These days Skyrim modding is all about having a bajillion patches to get all of your mods to work together properly. In my opinion, it'd be better if those patches were generated by a single source, e.g. a Bashed Patch, and stuck into a single ESP file. This is totally possible. Heck, it'd be cool if some mods just CONSTRUCTED themselves using a script (TES5Edit script preferably). SkyRe sort of does that, but it uses SkyProc, which is lame (bad definitions, causes corrupted data).

 

I agree. And while I am still thankful because that enables a very stable game with a lot of modifications (compared to morrowind/oblivion, and the early stages of FO3), that really is a headache to get everything working properly with everything overlapping and interlaced.
I suppose you're referencing your future Smashed patch. I've read about it in the last pages, and it indeed looks promissing. I was already thankful for the SkyProc, but felt it was a shame it only applied to a couple of mods (automatic variants, dual sheath, skyre...)

Anywho, good luck to you.

 

Thanks, I'll be posting some reports soon probably. First, pen & paper time, to do my plan of battle. And then INTENSIVE testing.

I like to get my game working as intended and stable, and then doing huge playthrough without adding or removing anything, and nothing worse than realising after 100h of gameplay, that you can't do dawnguard or falkreath because of a bad mod conflict, or that Immersive Armors never worked properly because you messed up the leveled lists

 

 

 

Just, one thing I don't understand. You say it is not currently possible to merge an esp with its master, but it is possible to merge a mod with its patches ?
 

Edited by Enidehalas, 01 September 2014 - 04:05 PM.

[matortheeternal]

Wow, that's what I call giving support, thanks a lot for the extensive and quick answer !

Sure thing!

That was what I wanted to try in second.
 
In first, I wanted to try RND + FF + HBorn together, with all their patches between each other, their own SkyRe patches and their own mini bashed patch.
But what drove me off is that you said that MCMs heavy scripted mods merge "not that good" (what does that mean technically ?)

The issue with MCMs is they have some external translation txt files which are named with the name of the ESP they're associated with concatenated with a static string. In v1.7 these files will be automatically copied/renamed/merged for you, but until then you'd have to copy/renamed/merge them by hand if you were merging mods with MCMs and translation files, else you'd have MCMs with weird looking variable names instead of standard English text in them.
 

Ok, since we have to renumber formIDs, it's not possible with the current version I guess. That being said, this 1.7 feature looks very promising !

v1.7 adds SO much. I'm really excited to get it released. You can download the files for the public beta on Github, if you want. You'd download mteFunctions.pas, the /mp subfolder (and all of its contents) Merge Plugins v1.7.pas, and Merged plugin manager v1.0.pas. Install these files directly into TES5Edit's Edit Scripts directory, and you should be good to go. (Make sure you're using TES5Edit 3.0.33 too, which will give you access to some of the new features in Merge Plugins v1.7.pas). It's a lot of new stuff though, so if you don't feel up to it you can wait for the official public release (and the documentation that will bring), which should be happening sometime in the coming week.

I really like this idea of "merging more helps you more". Accentuates the feeling of creating our own personnal DLC. Really different in comparison to the oblivion merging days

yeppers.
 

Oops, I was tired, I didn't even realise this topic was NOT the main Merge Plugin Script thread !! I didn't even look the comments before posting, my bad

s'all guud. You posted it somewhere I could see it and respond to it, that is what's most important.

I agree. And while I am still thankful because that enables a very stable game with a lot of modifications (compared to morrowind/oblivion, and the early stages of FO3), that really is a headache to get everything working properly with everything overlapping and interlaced.
I suppose you're referencing your future Smashed patch. I've read about it in the last pages, and it indeed looks promissing. I was already thankful for the SkyProc, but felt it was a shame it only applied to a couple of mods (automatic variants, dual sheath, skyre...)

Yeah, I don't like the compatibility patch revolution. It seems like a very roundabout and inefficient way of trying to get different content to play nicely together without the automagical power of full-on bashed patches, like from the TES4 days.

Thanks, I'll be posting some reports soon probably. First, pen & paper time, to do my plan of battle. And then INTENSIVE testing.
I like to get my game working as intended and stable, and then doing huge playthrough without adding or removing anything, and nothing worse than realising after 100h of gameplay, that you can't do dawnguard or falkreath because of a bad mod conflict, or that Immersive Armors never worked properly because you messed up the leveled lists

I know what you mean.
 

Just, one thing I don't understand. You say it is not currently possible to merge an esp with its master, but it is possible to merge a mod with its patches ?

I meant that it's not possible to merge an ESP directly INTO its master. "Merging upwards" so to say. It is possible to do that manually, but the current Merge Plugins script doesn't support it. If you're merging a patch file with the mods it patches, you will be merging into an all-new "fresh" ESP. It's a pretty trivial difference in the long run, so you don't have to really concern yourself with it.


-Mator

[Enidehalas]

I see. You answered before I even asked the question of "when" is the 1.7 comming

 

I am also very excited for this 1.7! Lot of good stuff. I think I am going to wait the public release. Certainly not doing all this copy-pasting by hand when it will be best done in a couple of days automatically !

Unless you need/could use some extra beta testing/testers, then I'd be happy to help and would do my merging today/tomorrow. You know, two birds, one stone. That's the least I can do to thank you

Same offer applies for the ongoing/future Smashtator, SmashMator, Smator, MashedPotatoes, Ultrapowerpatcher or I don't know how you're going to call it

 

And thanks for the technical clarifications. I can see clearly now

[Nazenn]

Did a few merged the other day in an attempt to get my mod list to not sit quite so close to the limit and ended up with these results:

ESPs merged: Unique Housecarls.esp , Appropriately Attired Jarls.esp , Guard's don't change outfits.esp , AppropriatelyAttiredHousecarls.esp
Mod names: UH - Unique Housecarls , Appropriately Attired Jarls Redux , Guards Dont Change Outfits , Appropriately Attired Housecarls
Scripts: Yes
BSAs: No
Result: Worked perfectly during the merging process and when tested in game. Works with both new and existing save games.
Other notes: None

 

ESPs merged: climatesoftameiel-dawnguard-patch.esp , CoT-WeatherPatch.esp , CoT-WeatherPatch-DB.esp , CoT-WeatherPatch_Snow-10.esp , CoT-WeatherPatch_SupStorms.esp , CoT_WeatherPatch_NL3.esp
Mod names: Climates of Tamriel , CoT Weather Patch (including supreme storms patch)
Scripts: No
BSAs: Yes
Result: Merge worked and works in game.
Other notes: Merged with above load order

 

ESPs merged: hornsareforever.esp , Better Claws and Gauntlets.esp
Mod names: Horns Are Forever , Better Claws and Gauntlets
Scripts: No
BSAs: Yes (I unpacked them)
Result: Worked perfectly when tested on new and existing characters
Other notes: None

 

ESPs merged: GoldenVendors.esp , VendorSaleDelay-Gone.esp
Mod names: Golden Vendors , Vendor Sale Delay - GONE
Scripts: Yes
BSAs: No
Result: Yes, during the merge and during in game testing
Other notes: None

 

ESPs merged: LightsHeljarchenHall.esp , LightsLakeviewManor.esp , LightsWinstadManor.esp
Mod names: Heljarchen Hall LIghts , Lakeview Manor Lights , Winstad Manor Lights
Scripts: No
BSAs: No
Result: Yes, as per the mods, lights showed at built houses and not at unpurchased property
Other notes: None

 

ESPs merged: DragonFire.esp , DragonFire-Dragonborn.esp , Improved Dragon Shouts.esp , Improved Dragon Shouts - Dawnguard.esp, Improved Dragon Shouts - Dragonborn.esp , DragonFire - Improved Dragon Shouts Compatability.esp
Mod names: DragonFire - Tactically Enhanced Breath Shouts , Improved Dragon Shouts
Scripts: No
BSAs: No
Result: Yes, the changes from both mods have full effect
Other notes: Above load order needed as per mods instructions

 

ESPs merged: Psiijic_Master_Outfits.esp , Pilgrim Gear.esp, SpaceWikingArchmageEnchantment.esp
Mod names: Psiijic Master Outfits , Pilgrim Robes and Backpack , Space Wiking Archpsijic Robe - Archmage Enchantment
Scripts: No
BSAs: No
Result: Yes, all items were avalible still and the enchantment still worked.
Other notes: None

 

ESPs merged: Reverb.esp , Sound.esp
Mod names: Reverb and Sound
Scripts: No
BSAs: No
Result: Yes, changes could still be heard
Other notes: Mod comes with .ini file

 

ESPs merged: ksArgonianWarPaint.esp , ksKhajiitWarPaint.esp , SkyRe_Races.esp
Mod names: Argonian Warpaints , Khajiit Warpaints , Races Module only of SkyRe Compatability and Reproducer Patches
Scripts: No
BSAs: No
Result: It appeared to merge fine but when the compiled esp was inspected the tints from the warpaints had not copied over from the two warpaint esps and had to be dragged over manually. Everything else merged fine and the warpaints showed up fine after doing the manual fix, with the skyre race changes working fine from the start.
Other notes: The incompatability appears to come primarily from the warpaints as merging them with other race file editing esps had a similar problem with the tints

[DemongelRex]

Edit: nevermind.

[Saizetsu]

is it possible to merge all the Skyre pieces into one? the reproccer freaks out when i try to run it after i merge some of the patches in because now it's missing its master file.

[DemongelRex]

is it possible to merge all the Skyre pieces into one? the reproccer freaks out when i try to run it after i merge some of the patches in because now it's missing its master file.

Yea, generally not a good idea to merge plugins that are masters to other plugins.  Can wreck havoc upon your game.

[Saizetsu]

I noticed. and Lost longswords does not function when merged. it adds doubles and makes them weaker when in conjunction with skyre.