53 replies to this topic

[WolfPalatine]

Captain RC: As for the Dragonborn quest... yeah, it's irksome to have to cooperate with that oversized Japanese porn fetish to save the world again... 

 

I laughed so hard at that.

 

But coming to topic, there's one very important point in this fellow's post. By Nord Logic (which isn't very smart, to be damn honest), it's not how you live that gets you to Sovngarde - it's how you die. You could be a paragon of virtue, but if you died by slipping on a banana peel, you don't enter Sovngarde.

 

On the other hand, you might be a scum-bucket of the highest order, but if you died in a mad, heroic last stand, you get to enter the Realm of Shor.

 

Plus, if you want to believe the underlying lore of the Elder Scrolls series, every "Hero" is just a manifestation of the Elder Scrolls and their will. So nobody but the Elder Scrolls owns these Heroes, and by extension, YOU. Only if the Scrolls will it, the Hero can pledge his/her allegiance, as was the case with the Champion of Cyrodiil (who eventually became the new Sheogorath).

 

So, yeah. While you do get shafted in nearly every damn quest, nobody owns you but the Scrolls. So if you prefer to enter Sovngarde, just go and die off in a blaze of glory, and you can enter, and all the Daedric Princes be damned. Simple, right?

[Matth85]

Regarding who owns your soul: 

You must look at the power range of the Daedra. Do you really think the weaker Daedras can take your soul over Akatosh? Or do you think petty Hircine can try to take your soul, if Sithis has it claimed? 

THe Daedras might be powerfull, but they are all a different power level from each other. The strongest one, which claims your soul, gets it. 

Frankly, it will be either Sithis or Akatosh.

 

I do like the idea that my power hungry, 2 thousand years old, High Elf currently got his soul split between everything that has given him any kind of power in return. His death will be chaotic for anybody wanting his soul!

[Lachdonin]

It's highly unlikely that Sithis claims anything. He's not a functioning, thinking entity but rather a primal force in the universe. In all likelyhood, the 'Sithis' that the Dark Brotherhood worships is just Mephala messing with them. Because that is, quite literally, what shes all about. 

 

Akatosh, likewise, doesn't claim souls. The entire process of soul-exchange on Mundus is that, when a mortal dies, and is not claimed by a Daedra, their soul passes through the Dreamsleave, has its memories wiped, and is reborn. Akatosh/Auri'el/Aka-tusk claims nothing. 

 

At the same time... Fulfilling a Prophesy is one of the Walking Ways, so the PC's are technically mortal anymore, and not subject to their pledges to the Daedra. 

Edited by Lachdonin, 03 November 2013 - 09:10 AM.

[CaptainRC]

At the same time... Fulfilling a Prophesy is one of the Walking Ways, so the PC's are technically mortal anymore, and not subject to their pledges to the Daedra. 

Forgive my ignorance (and I am not disagreeing with you)... but how does that work, exactly?

[Lachdonin]

 

At the same time... Fulfilling a Prophesy is one of the Walking Ways, so the PC's are technically mortal anymore, and not subject to their pledges to the Daedra. 

Forgive my ignorance (and I am not disagreeing with you)... but how does that work, exactly?

 

 

I am afraid that if you want specifics, you're going to have to ask Vivec. We don't really know HOW it works (or, frankly, if Vivec was just spouting total crap) but achieving one of the 7 Walking Ways is to transcend mortality and no longer be bound by the same rules as mortals. 

 

Of course, since one of the Walking Ways is Mantling, in which you BECOME a divine entity, i suppose there is still room to argue that Daedra can get your souls... Or rather, your soul becomes the Daedra (which is what happened to the CoC and Sheogorath).

[avallanche]

I dont read all the comments and I dont fully know the TES lore, but the way I see, the dragonborn does not have an ordinary soul, and then he simply cant be pledge to Daedras.

 

The dragonborn is a dragon soul in a human body, and as far as I can tell, dragons have specials souls that cant be pledged, captured or even killed without special methods.

 

But even if it could, then he would already be pledged to Akatosh, since at the start of the game he already is the dragonborn, just dont know yet... and so he couldnt give his soul to anyone else since it is no longer his to do so.

 

And again, even if he could, then his soul would be claimed by the strongest Aedra/Daedra, which is Akatosh anyway.

Edited by avallanche, 13 November 2013 - 08:44 PM.

[ruvuk]

I'm not so much into the more academic aspects of the dragonborn and the dragonborn's soul, but maybe that's because I'm still working on the game's basics.   :o)   I don't know . . .

 

But I sure do agree with the OP when he wrote about how avoiding the dark questlines really limits the player.  And I'm genuinely sorry that Bethesda opted to put the game together that way.

 

I've thought about this several times, but there's just no way I can play the dragonborn guy and, at the same time, fool around with the Brotherhood or the ugly daedra lords or any of that.  When I first started playing, I didn't mind skipping the dark questlines--I didn't want to do them, anyway.

 

But having played for a while, . . . and having tried my hand at modding with the CK and found tons of surprises there, . . . well, I now feel like I'm only playing maybe a third of the game.  One time I actually started a new character that I thought could join the Theives Guild, . . . but I gave it up after only a couple of hours.  <lol>  Playing that guy was work.

 

I'd really like to see a lot of the dark side of Skyrim--I know the Bethesda crew had to have done some really excellent work there--but w/o some way of getting through those quests w/o becoming one of the bad guys, I just can't go there.

 

But, what the heck, . . . I'm still trying to figure out some of the details about the darn thu'um . . .

:o)

[anvilton]

 

 

At the same time... Fulfilling a Prophesy is one of the Walking Ways, so the PC's are technically mortal anymore, and not subject to their pledges to the Daedra. 

Forgive my ignorance (and I am not disagreeing with you)... but how does that work, exactly?

 

 

I am afraid that if you want specifics, you're going to have to ask Vivec. We don't really know HOW it works (or, frankly, if Vivec was just spouting total crap) but achieving one of the 7 Walking Ways is to transcend mortality and no longer be bound by the same rules as mortals. 

 

Of course, since one of the Walking Ways is Mantling, in which you BECOME a divine entity, i suppose there is still room to argue that Daedra can get your souls... Or rather, your soul becomes the Daedra (which is what happened to the CoC and Sheogorath).

 

 

As I recall, in conversations between Dragonborn and Arngeir, Arngeir makes mention that Dragonborn is a special case since he/she is a dragon in human form as given by Akatosh. So it seems to me then you are "owned" by Akatosh and it doesn't matter what "promises" you make to Molag and the rest.

[MidbossVyers]

The Daedric quests seem like 1-time deals.  I do 1 task.  You give me 1 artifact.

[jjmard]

It's highly unlikely that Sithis claims anything. He's not a functioning, thinking entity but rather a primal force in the universe. In all likelyhood, the 'Sithis' that the Dark Brotherhood worships is just Mephala messing with them. Because that is, quite literally, what shes all about. 

Haha.. I always felt like something was off about sithis:)

I didn't have a problem with molag quest really.. You hear that the abondend house is associated with daedra, you know how powerful and dangerous they are, you can simply don't go to the house.
And in there you can avoid attacking, but he will attack you and you defend yourself, Even then (if you were just mere curious so you enterd) pretend to do whatever molag wants and go out and ignore the rest of the quest, surley other options would be fine but this way it's more like how daedras were described in game. They are what they are, not even evil, thats just common human view on them as evil. Just my opinion though;)

Edited by jjmard, 02 February 2014 - 01:44 AM.