48 replies to this topic

[Lehcar]

For me it wasn't a hard decision, as I understand it isn't for most people - I chose Paarthurnax and the Greybeards over the Blades.

 

Dragons are powerful. A dragon would make a powerful ally. Sadly, most of them cannot be allied with because they're all so stupidly loyal to stupid Alduin. However, Paarthurnax is one who is not loyal to him. He has also lived a long time. So in addition to being powerful, he is also very wise.

 

Therefore he is a very valuable ally. And I think Delphine and Esbern are extremely stupid for refusing to see that, wanting him dead even though he helps and guides the player a lot, but mostly just wants to be left in peace and has no interest in bringing harm to anyone.

 

Also, I seriously don't like how Delphine and Esbern are, overall, very disrespectful to the Dragonborn. They swore an oath to serve him, and are in no place to be ordering him around. I think the Blades who came before them, who served the Septim emperors, would be very angry and disgusted by their behaviour.

 

More importantly, though, their utter disloyalty to the Dragonborn is unacceptable. They are sorry excuses for Blades and I believe they simply are not trustworthy.

 

Really, I don't feel bad about killing Delphine. She's an utter biatch to the player throughout the whole game and Esbern isn't a great deal better towards the end.

 

The only thing I feel bad about is destroying the Blades as an organization. They were so very very awesome in Oblivion, and I sorely miss that. For the sake of Jauffre and Baurus and all of the other awesome and loyal Blades... I feel sad about destroying their order. It's extremely unfortunate, IMHO.

[Urtel]

I agree with you in some way. My reasons are different.

 

Actually i don't think, that rebuiding the blades will change situation. Why would Db do that. Since there is no more Septim dynasty, and all the knowledge and forts and artifacts of the blades are lost, how the hell an old man and woman are going to restore the power? Restore the traditions, and all that stuff. The only relic they have, is a damn rock with a prophesy. And how are they going to fight dragons with those recruits? Also, Thalmor won't allow them to act freely. I gues this is just a way to defend themselves. Simple egoistic fear of being cought.

 

Talking about killing P. There are pro- and contra-

Defenetly dragons are no good for mortals. Mostly. Even though P says about peace an etc etc. I don't believe Dovah will ever forget the dragon war and revolts of humans.

On the other hand - Greybeards support him, but also they are known to make wrong decisions. They are already not that strong, so supporting them is also no sense. Actually what they do, is just clear sky time-to-time and meditating. And they also have no students.

Killing P will change nothing, except relations between Db and others.

Also If you kill P., other dragons would start fighting for leadership after A. is banished. That can turn into a big problem.

[The Vampire Dante]

 

Actually i don't think, that rebuiding the blades will change situation. Why would Db do that. Since there is no more Septim dynasty,

 

Serve and protect the Dragonborn, and fight alongside them. The Blades existed long before the Septims in one form... Taking on the role of Dragon hunters.

 

and all the knowledge and forts and artifacts of the blades are lost, how the hell an old man and woman are going to restore the power? Restore the traditions, and all that stuff. The only relic they have, is a damn rock with a prophesy.

 

Which turned out to be true, and whose information was instrumental to the plans that saved the known world from Alduin. The Blades will basically gain fame by proxy due to their connection with the Dragonborn, that might lead people to wanting to be a part of the group that once served alongside such a hero (especially if they spin it right). Plus, if they do take on the Dragon hunting role, there's plenty of people that might want to take that cause on and sign up.

 

And how are they going to fight dragons with those recruits? Also, Thalmor won't allow them to act freely. I gues this is just a way to defend themselves. Simple egoistic fear of being cought.

 

Depends on the quality and number of recruits. Dephine is a fighter, she can handle their combat training while Esbern fills them in on the history, lore and such about the order and the knowledge of how to deal with Dragons and other issues. You bring them a few hardy and loyal followers to start them off, whose to say that later they don't find and recruit more people themselves? There may be other blades still in hiding that weren't known about or thought dead. They might show up with a few additional bodies to add to the ranks.

 

Thalmor: Bit of a Problem there yes, but if you've sided with the Stormcloaks for ending the Civil War - Skyrim might now be the safest place for them to be. The present Thalmor will have bigger problems to deal with than hunting a few rogue enemies. The entire country may well be mounting an offense to get rid of the Dominion's agents.

 

If the Empire wins the war, then there will be a lot more problems, but they are in an extremely well defended area. So it would take a long time to oust them. Especially if you've built up a sizable force before anyone starts bothering with tracking them down again.

 

As for the Greybeards... as far as anyone attacking them: Same thing as the Blades, well defended and hard to reach area to begin with, and if it came down to it, I'm sure that Paarthanax and the Greybeards would use the voice to defend themselves... maybe not in direct, conflict devised ways - but altering weather, halting progress through force and other shouts that would hold and drive opposition back.

 

You can't mount an assault on somewhere you can't reach or see. You wouldn't even be able to get any equipment up to the hall at High Hrothgar. The steps hinder heavy hauling, and if worked around, there's one of the most ancient Dovah in the world living at the top, all he has to do is swoop down, grab the stuff and toss it back down the mountainside. That's if he even needs to get that close - you imagine him using the Unrelenting Force shout on a siege caravan on a mountainside? There'd be very little left of that crew.

 

That's without saying that perhaps after the events, the Greybeards do get a few new recruits to the order, and maybe a few Dragons take to Paarthanax and his teachings. So there may be more than four old men and one ancient Dragon to deal with.

[Urtel]

All that long reading

 

Very hard to write it all down, but i ll try to be short.

 

We all know about the dragon guard and that stuff. I just meant, that as organisation, blades are on themselfs now. With no support from empire. Which turns them in a different group. Dragon guard was not just dovah-slayers. Niether Akaviri were. And now blades are just bunch of dragon hunters with no expirience and knowledge. Again, i say, Blades were not just bodyguards. And now they are just a group of adventurers. This means, they are not Blades anymore. And i dont think, that dragonborn really needs them, especially after his Solstheim travel. Its only the memmories and name, that connects those groups.

 

As for the GB, why someone would offence against them? They are completely off the war track. And from usual life too, actually. So even if Db wanted to make a fortress at their place, they will not support him.

My main point was not about GB, but about P.

I say, no way he could stop another dragon war. Delay, may be. Not prevent. Wich means, P. would die in fight with dragon hunters, or other dovah. And since there is no excisting strong opponent for dragons, it may be the begining of another dragon-rule ages. But this also means, that may be P. should live, as a guarantee of that delay. This part is very weak, its only guesses.

Edited by Urtel, 30 July 2013 - 01:42 PM.

[Georgiegril]

I picked Paarthurnax and the GreyBeards, because

1. I like Paarthurnax, and to me he seems as though he is trying to do right/be righteous, despite the tantalizing amount of power he could use for selfish gain.

2. The Greybeards are disciples, they devote themselves to their cause, but they do yeild to both the DragonBorn and Paarthurnax, and are willing to admit their own limitations.

3. The Blades are zealots who respond aggressively anyone or thing that threatens their ideology, and lack any inherent structure or philosophy that would rein in extremism.

 

I fear idealogues far more than Dragons, so my choice was simple.

[TheNewAgeElvis]

I chose both and went with the Paarthurnax Dilemma mod. Being able to talk the Blades down seems only natural.

[kleinstaff]

I chose both and went with the Paarthurnax Dilemma mod. Being able to talk the Blades down seems only natural.

exactly

 

the vanilla quests are sometimes so thumbed down in order to fit the console version  it   makes   a lot of the quest  so uncomplete and i breaks completely the immersion

 

the major flaw of this game   and only  real flaw is the complete lack of consequinces

[rizon72]

I'm not fond of either group.

 

The Blades are too strict to the 'we must kill every dragon'.  I like Paarthurnax, and having a dragon as a friend, cool.  However, I do like the fact the Blades are willing to get involved when something happens, and they are against those darn Thalmor.

 

The Greybeards and their attitude that we don't get involved is irritating.  They are willing to sit by, watching the world crumble and do nothing about it.  I'm the dragonborn!  I can't sit around and do nothing.  However, their leader is a dragon, can't get a better leader than that.

[StayFrosty05]

I picked Paarthurnax and the GreyBeards, because

1. I like Paarthurnax, and to me he seems as though he is trying to do right/be righteous, despite the tantalizing amount of power he could use for selfish gain.

2. The Greybeards are disciples, they devote themselves to their cause, but they do yeild to both the DragonBorn and Paarthurnax, and are willing to admit their own limitations.

3. The Blades are zealots who respond aggressively anyone or thing that threatens their ideology, and lack any inherent structure or philosophy that would rein in extremism.

 

I fear idealogues far more than Dragons, so my choice was simple.

I believe Georgiegril makes a very important point here....The Skyrim game Blades are extremists and thus I would consider also a somewhat more dangerous element than the continued existence of Dragons.

 

I personally find the Blades much too lacking in self discipline and lacking in respect for others and other ways beyond themselves, they don't look outside the box, they are too caught up in their own thirst for blood. Delphine is from the start a rude, disrespectful and tunnel visioned fool, she certainly doesn't make herself a very appetizing prospect to work with...insulting and egotistical attitude from the word go.

 

As for the Greybeards, I actually understand where they are coming from, from a philosophical point of view...their inaction isn't quite as apathetic as it first appears.

Edited by StayFrosty05, 03 August 2013 - 10:52 AM.

[Urtel]

Also, blades could actually be one of the reasons, why the war started. They were causing problems in summerset, and we do not know, if there was a real threat for the empire at that point. I may be wrong, but that is my point.