23 replies to this topic

[AndyDocHolliday]

Just seems like common sense to me to run it through boss and check before you upload it.  

[AndyDocHolliday]

Okay! Every single one of my mods that needed cleaning has been cleaned. Now, I pumped open Wrye Bash and went to create a new bash patch just for kicks, but it's giving me an error with my Unofficial Hearthfires Patch, saying it has a 'delinquent master', that master being HearthFires.esm. Eek! Is this something I should be worried about? 

[AndyDocHolliday]

I imagine it might be, since now that I have everything cleaned and looking good in my BOSS report, trying to launch the game results in an instant CTD before even reaching the menu, which as I understand it points to a missing master file. Since Mod Organizer, Wrye Bash and BOSS aren't detecting any missing masters in my mind it's all pointing to this 'delinquent master'. 

 

Alternatively, I'm just an idiot and I don't understand anything. I have 186 mods on there at the moment, all cleaned with no missing masters and all their necessary compatibility patches.  

Current Load Order

Spoiler

These plugins are recognised by BOSS and have been sorted according to its masterlist. Please read any attached messages and act on any that require action.

• Skyrim.esm Active
• Update.esm Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}
• Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp Active
• Dawnguard.esm Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}
• HearthFires.esm Active
• Dragonborn.esm Active
• ClimatesOfTamriel.esm Active
  • Warning: Due to conflicts between Sounds of Skyrim - Civilization and ClimatesOfTamriel.esm it is recommended you use the appropriate compatibility patch found here.
  • Warning: Due to conflicts between Sounds of Skyrim - The Wilds and ClimatesOfTamriel.esm it is recommended you use the appropriate compatibility patch found here.
• Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esm Active
• moonpath.esm Active
• SkyMoMod.esm Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}
• Solstheim Climate Overhaul.esm Active
• SPIKE.esm Active
• Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev, Stats}}
  • Note: If you using version 2.0 of the unofficial patches but you see this message you need to download this file: userlist.txt. After the download you need to copy this file to your 'BOSS\Skyrim\' folder or add the contents of this file to an already existing userlist.txt. Just ignore this message after updating any preexisting userlist.txt or copying the file to your 'BOSS\Skyrim\' folder.
• Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev, Stats}}
• Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Stats}}
• Chesko_Frostfall.esp Active
• ItRainedOn.esp Active
• Better Dynamic Snow.esp Active
• Morning Fogs.esp Active
• RevampedExteriorFog.esp Active
• SplashofRain.esp Active
• Supreme Fog - CoT.esp Active
• fantasy music overhaul.esp Active
• StaticMeshImprovementMod.esp Active
• StaticMeshImprovementMod-DragonbornTernFix.esp Active
• StaticMeshImprovementMod-FurnitureChestSnowFix.esp Active
• 83Willows_101BUGS_V4_HighRes.esp Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}
• BLESSINGS - Altar Descriptions.esp Active
• BorderSense.esp Active
• Cannabis.esp Active
• CannabisUpdate.esp Active
• Dead Body Collision.esp Active
• DFB - Random Encounters.esp Active
• Dual Sheath Redux.esp Active
  • Requires: Java Runtime Environment 7 update 17+
• Harvest More Food & Ingredients.esp Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev}}
• UnlimitedBookshelves.esp Active
• moredragonloot.esp Active
• PassiveWeaponEnchantmentRecharging.esp Active
• Point The Way.esp Active
• Populated Dungeons Caves Ruins.esp Active
• Populated Forts Towers Places.esp Active
• Populated Lands Roads Paths.esp Active
• Populated Skyrim Civil War.esp Active
• Populated Skyrim Prisons Cells.esp Active
• Radiant and Unique Potions and Poisons v2.0.esp Active
• Real Clouds.esp Active
• SabreFurBag.esp Active
• Skyrim Immersive Creatures.esp Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}
• Skyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.esp Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}
• Skyrim Flora Overhaul.esp Active
• Traps Make Noise.esp
• When Vampires Attack.esp Active
• Morrowloot_nwah.esp Active
• WetandCold.esp Active
• Chesko_LoreBasedLoadingScreens.esp Active
• Footprints.esp Active
• RaceMenu.esp Active
• RaceMenuPlugin.esp Active
  • Note: RaceMenuPlugin is optional and provides support to alter Height, Breast, Glute and Biceps. If you experience issues with it, disable RaceMenuPlugin.esp and inform the author.
• towConversation.esp Active
• SkyUI.esp Active
• iHUD.esp Active
• Customizable Camera.esp Active
• Cloaks.esp Active
• Immersive Weapons.esp Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}
• Injure Set.esp Active
• One handed Crossbow.esp Active
• skyforgedShields.esp Active
• Unique Uniques.esp Active
• Dr_Bandolier.esp Active
• Lock Overhaul.esp Active
• DeadlyDragons.esp Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}
• AgentOfRighteousMight.esp Active
• buildablehouse.esp Active
• CornerofTheSkyrim.esp Active
• FZGuildOutposts.esp Active
• FZGuildOutpost_DLC01.esp Active
• FZGuildOutpostsDLC02.esp Active
• FZDBFalkreathResurrect.esp Active
• Inconsequential NPCs.esp Active
• moonpath_questdata.esp Active
• OBIS.esp Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}
• OBISDB.esp Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}
• PumpingIron.esp Active
• Radiance.esp Active
• Run For Your Lives.esp Active
• The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp Active
• theWatchTowers.esp Active
• throneroom.esp Active
• TheChoiceIsYours.esp Active
• Better Vampires.esp Active
  • Contains dirty edits: Do not clean. "Dirty" edits are intentional and required for the mod to function.
• Brevi_MoonlightTales.esp Active
• ESFCompanions.esp Active
• Apocalypse - The Spell Package.esp Active
• Werewolf Loot.esp Active
• NonEssentialChildren.esp Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev}}
• The Dance of Death - Ultimate Edition.esp Active
• Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp Active
• Acquisitive Soul Gems.esp Active
• Appropriately Attired Jarls Redux.esp Active
• ArchmageTolfdir.esp Active
• BetterQuestObjectives.esp Active
• BetterQuestObjectives-Dawnguard.esp Active
• BetterQuestObjectives-Hearthfire.esp Active
• BetterQuestObjectives-PaarDilemmaPatch.esp Active
• BetterQuestObjectives-DBForevertoMisc.esp Active
• FireAndIceOverhaul.esp Active
• Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp Active
  • Note: Do not clean. "Dirty" edits are intentional and required for the mod to function.
• Headtracking.esp Active
• HorsesGoneWild.esp Active
• ImmediateDragons.esp Active
• NoBlur.esp Active
• OpenFaceGuardHelmets.esp Active
• SkyTEST-RealisticAnimals&Predators.esp Active
• The Grace of Divine -True 9 Divines Blessings-.esp Active
• BetterQuestObjectives-TheChoiceIsYoursPatch.esp Active
• TorchRadius.esp Active
• skyforgedWeapons.esp Active
• Unique Region Names - Dragonborn.esp Active
• Helgen Reborn.esp Active
• Shortcuts.esp Active
• Whiterun Expansion.esp Active
• icefloes.esp Active
• Tundra to forest.esp Active
• Unique Grasses.esp Active
• Beautiful Cities.esp Active
• Populated Cities Towns Villages.esp Active
• SkyrimSewers.esp Active
• SoS - The Dungeons.esp Active
  • Note: Do not use the Crash Fix ESP for this mod. It is flagged as a master and is only meant as a last resort for fixing crashes.
• SoS - The Wilds.esp Active
  • Note: Do not use the Crash Fix ESP for this mod. It is flagged as a master and is only meant as a last resort for fixing crashes.
• SoS - Civilization.esp Active
  • Note: Do not use the Crash Fix ESP for this mod. It is flagged as a master and is only meant as a last resort for fixing crashes.
• ClimatesOfTamriel-Dawnguard-Patch.esp Active
• ClimatesOfTamriel-Dragonborn-Patch.esp Active
• ClimatesOfTamriel-Dungeons-Hazardous.esp Active
  • Incompatible with: Realistic Lighting Overhaul
• ClimatesOfTamriel-Interiors-Warm.esp Active
  • Incompatible with: Realistic Lighting Overhaul
• ClimatesOfTamriel-Nights-Level-6.esp Active
• Supreme Storms - Cot Version.esp Active
• Unique Region Names - Dragonborn COT Patch.esp Active
• SoS - Civilization-PatchCoT.esp Active
  • Note: Use only one Sounds of Skyrim - Civilization and CoT patch.
• abotFiresHurt.esp Active
• RealisticNeedsandDiseases.esp Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}
• RND_Dawnguard-Patch.esp Active
• RND_HearthFires-Patch.esp Active
• RND_Dragonborn-Patch.esp Active
• RND_USKP-Patch.esp Active
  • Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Relev}}
• Realistic Running Speed.esp Active
• BetterQuestObjectives-MoonlightPatch.esp Active
• ShoutCD.esp Active
• InvestedMagic.esp Active
• DGInvestedMagic.esp Active
• Duel - Combat Realism.esp Active
• Locational Damage.esp Active
• Crimson Tide - Blood.esp Active
• TrueYield.esp Active
• Sneak Tools.esp Active
• Sneak Tools Vanilla Hoods.esp Active
• Sneak Tools Vanilla Masks.esp Active
• NoFallDamageforVL.esp Active
• Vampirelordroyal.esp Active
• UFO - Ultimate Follower Overhaul.esp Active
  • Note: For safe install need dismiss all your followers, save, delete all included mods, load again, save and install UFO. For safe uninstall or update see special instructions on mod page.
• UFO - Dragonborn AddOn.esp Active
• UFO - Dawnguard AddOn.esp Active
• UFO - Heartfire AddOn.esp Active
• BetterQuestObjectives-UFOPatch.esp Active
• No NPC Greetings.esp Active
• ESFAela.esp Active
• Realistic Teeth Dawnguard Serana Vampire Fix.esp Active
• moveit.esp
• BetterQuestObjectives-NECPatch.esp Active
• BetterQuestObjectives-AlternateStartPatch.esp Active
• ethereal_elven_overhaul.esp Active
• First Person Messages.esp Active
• TTYM - Think to Yourself Messages.esp Active
• TTYM - Frostfall Module.esp Active
• getSnowy.esp Active
• RealShelter.esp Active
• Spells Cast Light.esp Active
• WATER.esp Active
• WATER Plants.esp Active
• WATER DB Waves.esp Active
• RND_Water-Patch.esp Active
• Unique Region Names.esp Active
• Bashed Patch, 0.esp Active
• Dual Sheath Redux Patch.esp Active

Edited by AndyDocHolliday, 08 February 2014 - 05:20 PM.

[Lord Garon]

Yeah, the Delinquent Master means a plugin is loading before a required Master, but the Master is present somewhere else. Your load order is out-of-whack. (Hearthfires patch loading before Hearthfires.esm, for instance, but there are more) Trying to load the game with out-of-place Master files will cause an immediate CTD.

 

Since you are using BOSS, it looks like a file permission error is preventing BOSS from actually updating the file loadorder.txt; that file is the "interim" keeper of BOSS's load order for Skyrim.

 

Try this... find the BOSS.exe and BOSS GUI.exe files where you installed BOSS. Right-click the exe files-->Properties-->Compatability: tick the "Run this program as an administrator". Apply. Okay. Actually, you should set all the exe files involved with Skyrim to "Run as administrator"; Wrye Bash.exe, skyrim_loader.exe, skse_loader.exe, even TESV.exe, etc. It will solve some issues with the Windows UAC file protection mechanism. If it STILL won't order the first few files correctly, follow the directions in the BOSS note for updating the BOSS userlist rules.

 

If you're running BOSS from Wrye Bash, right-click on the BOSS icon along the bottom of the BASH window and make sure that "BOSS disable lock load order" is ticked and that Wrye Bash.exe is allowed to run as an administrator (above).

 

As a reference, here is how the first few files should be ordered, IF you have the latest Unofficial Patches:

 

Spoiler

Skyrim.esm Active

Update.esm Active
* Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}


Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp Active
* Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev, Stats}}


Dawnguard.esm Active
* Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}


Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp Active
* Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev, Stats}}


HearthFires.esm Active

Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp Active

Dragonborn.esm Active

Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp Active
* Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Stats}}

 

EDIT: I have to provide another warning: MO uses a virtual file system for running Skyrim and keeps copies of almost everything involved with a profile in MO specific directories. My advice is from experience without MO, using "default" locations and file names. I DON'T KNOW for sure where MO keeps third party adjusted files (like loadorder.txt being adjusted by BOSS). Just make sure to run all the third party tools (BOSS, BASH, TES5EDIT) from MO and I "think" you should be okay.

Edited by Lord Garon, 08 February 2014 - 08:50 PM.

[Lord Garon]

Just seems like common sense to me to run it through boss and check before you upload it.

 

BOSS does not check your mods by itself, per se, it looks them up in a database which contains info provided by the mod authors themselves, or others. If a mod is not in the database, it is "unrecognized" by BOSS.

[AndyDocHolliday]

Ugh, but I have user defined rules as well as common sense on my side commanding that the patches load after the files they are patching. I don't understand why BOSS hates me so much and refuses to order them correctly. Additionally, I can't shift them manually because I just get the error that I can't load plugins before masters. YET BOSS SEEMS FINE LOADING THE HEARTHFIRES UNOFFICIAL PATCH BEFORE ITS MASTER. 

I hate this haha. 

 

Why can the Unofficial Hearthfires Patch.esp be moved around willy-nilly but moving any other .esp amongst the .esm's results in an error? 

 

And Garon, I went through and am now running everything as an admin, and there's no difference. 

Edited by AndyDocHolliday, 09 February 2014 - 04:54 AM.

[AndyDocHolliday]

It should also be mentioned that even running a clean profile with absolutely no mods OR official DLC is also producing this crash. 

[AndyDocHolliday]

On my hands and knees here guys. 

[Lord Garon]

It should also be mentioned that even running a clean profile with absolutely no mods OR official DLC is also producing this crash. 

 

Yeah, that's pretty important. I need to check a couple things regarding MO before I offer advice on troubleshooting the basic game.

 

Did you have any mods installed before you started using MO, ie, did you install MO with a clean, unmodded Skyrim directory? Are there any DLC or other mod esp/esm files in your Skyrim\Data directory (not counting the Skyrim - *.bsa files)? Are there meshes or textures directories in the Data directory? I don't know how MO handles mods which were in-place when it was installed. I don't want to ask you to verify your game cache and have Steam overwrite your cleaned DLC, for instance. I can troubleshoot many problems in a "default" setup, but MO confuses the crap out of me concerning pre-existing mods and directories.

 

EDIT: You could try a basic game test. First, copy your My Games\Skyrim directory somewhere safe, just in case. Launch Skyrim through Steam. On the launcher screen, Click DATA FILES and un-tick everything, click OK. Click PLAY and start a new game. Edit: When Ralof talks to you At the main menu, hit ~ to open the console and enter:   coc Riverwood01

A default character should wind up in Riverwood. Make a full save. You can run a stress test and see how stable the basic game is. Open console again (~ key) and enter:

 

player.setav speedmult 1000

tcl

tgm

 

Close console. You can now warp around Skyrim (try sprinting), severely stressing the game. You should be able to do this for several minutes. If it crashes right away, restart and load the Riverwood save and see if the CTD/ILS/FREEZE happens in the same place. Try to determine if its a repeatable CTD, or just random. If you inch up to a door, you can enter cities and dungeons as well.

Edited by Lord Garon, 12 February 2014 - 11:52 PM.

[AndyDocHolliday]

Yes, I started using MO on a completely clean install. All the DLC's are in the data directory. Yes, there are mesh and texture folders in the data directory. There were no in-place mods other than SKSE before I started using MO. Like I said I made sure it was completely fresh to try and avoid some of this nonsense. 

 

I can't even open the game outside of MO now either, immediately crashes, again even with no mods or DLC ticked at all, which says to me I have buggered something up outside of MO that needs fixing.