527 replies to this topic

[nephilim379]

In response to post #19600634. #19618004 is also a reply to the same post.

The sleeping trick worked!! Makes me feel a little silly now. XD

I downloaded the ELFX patch just to be safe. Thanks for the help!

[keithinhanoi]

In response to post #19508739. #19529309 is also a reply to the same post.

I think I remember seeing that while I was making a BOYD patch this morning, and if I'm not mistaken ETaC 13.3 makes Orgnar protected, so he wouldn't need the dead body clean-up script VMAD entry so much.

[maxxdaemon]

In response to post #19606584. #19617744 is also a reply to the same post.

Well, like I said, this happens in a completely new game, which means it's a fresh install of the latest version.

There must be something deep in my .ini settings or something in my Skyrim install that I missed or wasn't able to disable when I was testing... Good to know you can't reproduce the problem, which means it's more than likely on my end somewhere. Thanks!

[eR1s0n]

Ivarstead Player House bug.
http://i.imgur.com/XqfJ0YE.jpg?1

[gentester]

In response to post #19632739.

that looks like another mod loading after ETAC and returning the landscape to vanilla

[eR1s0n]

In response to post #19632739. #19635929 is also a reply to the same post.

Thx. Fixed.

[missjennabee]

In response to post #19508739. #19529309, #19629039 are all replies on the same post.

He still technically can be killed though (protected v. essential) and I double checked and there was indeed an overwrite problem. SO! On the most recent update I added the script to Orgnar. Problem solved? Hooray!

[missjennabee]

--- NOTE ---

IF YOU ARE EXPERIENCING THE "FLOATING GRASS BUG"
This is NOT a problem with this mod specifically,
and is instead an issue with grass textures not updating correctly.
You can fix it by following these steps.

Now, I tried to test this as thoroughly as possible. Trust me, I ran through it like 30298402984 times, at various stages of game. But, let's face it - I'm one person. One very busy, very tired, very overworked person. With things like bills, and thus a job, and a man who is always needing things like food and clean clothes ... So I certainly could have missed stuff, and THAT is where you come in! (Lucky, lucky you.) Should you happen upon anything, you know, odd - Leave your comment here and I'll do my best to fix it promptly.

Now for a bit about common problems/issues/things...

WELCOME! To my lovely little post on various things that can contribute to the perfect storm of stuff that might KILL your game. (Kill it dead.) (Splat.) aka "Most Commonly Addressed Issues for ETaC" aka "Stuff Jenna Says Entirely Too Often For Her Sanity." (The complete article can be found HERE.) In any event, for ETaC's purposes, let's begin with...


Let's start with some things you should know with regard to memory issues (Infinite Loading Screens - ILS; and/or Crash to Desktop - CTD) and how Skyrim handles them.

Beginning with - Skyrim's "Memory Cap" a/k/a the Large Address Aware Patch. I give you bben46...

No matter how much ram you have, Skyrim is still a 32 bit program and can only use a maximum of 4GB of that ram. This is not something that you can fix. Running a 64 bit system just allows the Windows and other background stuff to load outside of the 4GB maximum used by the game. Even with a 64 bit Windows, if you have 4GB of ram or less, you will not be able to use all of it for the game. If you have a 32 bit system then the system itself is limited to 4GB max, and part of that will be used by windows and background programs. - Again, nothing you can fix. Even if you have a million dollar supercomputer with 256 Gigs of ram - Skyrim is still limited to 4GB ram max. And when those 4GBs are used up - you will crash.

Essentially, when the RAM is used up, there is nowhere to put the new data. This is most often seen when you load a new area, go through a door, or autosave. As these actions temporarily take a lot more memory than you were using just before the crash. And yes, this memory ceiling can even be hit due to the textures you are using... (See "Textures" Section below.)

BUT worry not! There is help for you. (Per Arthmoor)...

In March of 2013, Bethesda released their final patch for Skyrim. Version 1.9.32.0.8. It has since been found [that this patch] changed something about the way Skyrim allocates its initial pools of memory, likely due to trying to get the DLC to work on the PS3 and then not bothering to make sure the PC had, you know, PC specific code for that.

The end result is ILS/CTD issues. Fortunately, the community has devised a solution to this problem in the form of a pre-load memory patch. There are several options for these now, but the one I most strongly recommend is shipping as part of SKSE now beginning with SKSE 1.7. In order to configure SKSE 1.7 to resolve this problem, you simply need to make sure your skse.ini file in Data/SKSE contains at least the following lines:

[Memory]
DefaultHeapInitialAllocMB=768
ScrapHeapSizeMB=256

This should resolve the problem on all but the heaviest of load orders. If you still have issues, then you can try either raising the 768 value to 1024, or install ENBoost which will help further reconfigure how RAM is used by the game. There are limits to this, so be careful. [As said above] Skyrim can [still] only have a maximum of 4GB even on a 64 bit system with boatloads of RAM. Allocate too much to either of the two SKSE settings and you'll be right back where you started with the ILS/CTD problem.

Also, per siuan, in re; crashes from Helgen to Riverwood (And Please Note --- This information is not limited to crashes in that specific area, and will help you if you are experiencing crashes in ANY area. Riverwood was just the area that was being discussed at the time)...

The problem ... may have been finally figured out on the enbdev forums. Basically, as you go from Helgen to Riverwood, you are actually stepping on the borders of 3-4 cells in several places, which means that if Skyrim is not allocating memory properly (which it turns out not to be, in this instance), as you go from cell to cell so rapidly, you'll CTD. The reason you are seeing what you're seeing is that ETaC is fairly memory intensive (both VRAM and RAM), so naturally it might persist even when everything else is gone. To read more about it, you can look here.

I can also recommend using Stable uGridsToLoad, regardless of whether or not you're using high ugrids, and ENBoost, regardless of whether or not you're using an ENB. SKSE, ENBoost, and uGridsToLoad are the trifecta of having a game that runs smoothly.

HERE ARE YOUR LINKS:

#1: http://skse.silverlock.org/'>SKSE by the SKSE Team;
#2: CTD and Memory Patch ENBoost by Boris Vorontsov; and,
#3: uGridsToLoad by Altimor.

Lastly, an update from siuan with regard to SKSE/SSME:

SKSE has included Sheson's Memory Fix in a non-alpha version (though the alpha was perfectly stable) for a long time now, and people should be using the latest SKSE always. Many mods require it, as they added a lot of new scripting functionality. (I keep up with that thread most of the time.) If I think of anything else, I'll let you know, but as far as game stability goes, I think those are the new developments that took place in your absence. And I can say they work, since I am a screenshotter and never run anything in less than 2160p with a ludicrous amount of textures and mods.

Moving on...



As mentioned above, HD textures, ENBs, or even your default graphics settings can also soak up your memory, and quick-like. I, personally, don't recommend using any textures above 1-2k (if you're on a lower end system, stick to 1k.) Especially when you're using A LOT of them. If you have 2039482084 things now loading 4k high-res textures it's going to make Skyrim's game engine weep, and crash and set fire to your living room. AND! As a general rule, (not just in relation to this mod), try to be careful about how many textures and of what kind you install. (Meaning beyond just armor, items and a few landscapes here or there.) Try not to grab up an insane and unreasonable amount of high res LOD, grasses, rocks, mountains etc. and so on - aka things that would start to pile up in an exterior cell.

What I'm trying to say is... If you come to me and say you're game is crashing, and I ask what kind of textures you've got installed and it's a million different 4k texture packs... I'm going to hurt you. With my teeth. And refuse to help you. Because you're beyond saving. Nobody needs 4k textures. You'll never ever even be able to tell the difference in game you crazy crazy lunatic, you.

Also. Grass. If someone is experiencing a big FPS drop in exterior cells, one of the first things I always recommend is to drop the "Grass Loading Distance" from far to medium. See, grass isn't just "stuff" it's "moving stuff" and there is A LOT OF IT. All over Skyrim. This is especially problematic if you are using high-res grass textures. I shall now direct you to a quote from siuan...

Grass can be a huge culprit for low FPS. There are some ways to avoid the FPS drop and still have good grass. [In some cases] if you uncheck the .esp for certain texture mods, it just becomes a texture replacer. [This is true of both SFO and Lush Grass and Tress] -- I just use the meshes. My grass mod of choice is Dat Grass, WHICH SHOULD NOT BE YOURS IF YOU HAVE LOW FPS!

Also, with regard to Grass on Steriods and SFO (Skyrim Flora Overhaul) I first give you Nazenn...

...I use a mod called Grass on Steriods which can help boost your FPS massively, and is one of the things which helps me avoid too much of an FPS drop in Falkreath while using ETaC and SFO. [It] even helped avoid running out of memory in such areas. Asa did a good comparison showing the boost, and I got an even bigger boost then asa did. (Please see: Asa's Ultimate Grass And Tree Overhaul Comparison And Performance FPS Test by Asa.)

BUT. I shall now also give you keithinhanoi, because...

It's important to note that the GoS (Grass on Steriods) plugins for SFO were updated a number of SFO versions ago, and due to changes that have happened with SFO, will not work fully and properly with anything more recent that SFO 1.79e.

And with that I end my 23042340824 paragraph dissection of Skyrim related grass stuff. Now on to ENBs...

ENBs also put added strain on processing, so my suggestion there is just to try and tweak the settings a bit, or Skyrim's default settings if you're not using one. (i.e. set load distances to medium vs. far; set ENB graphics to medium vs. high - in a lot of cases the difference in quality is barely noticeable while the difference in performance is huge.)



Let's take a moment to talk about scipts. Beginning with mods that add scripts to NPCs and mods that add NPCs...

Now when you use a mod that affixes scripts to NPCs, (i.e. Footprints, Enhance Blood, Run For Your Lives, etc.) it affixes them to ALL NPCs, even new ones added by things like ETaC. So when you walk into a large town, like let's say Dawnstar, you get an influx of tons of scripts running on tons of NPCs and sometimes HELLO! You're magically planted back at the desktop. (Additionally, if you then add on something like Interesting NPCs, or the Immersive NPCs packs, (even MORE people, even more scripts, so on.)

Now I'm not saying you can't use all those mods together, you can, I'm just saying sometimes this makes things crashy. I shall now direct you to a quote from siuan...

a lot of scripts can pile up, and this can be bad, but not all scripted mods are bad, either. Footprints is constant and I don't believe it's a huge problem by itself, but that on top of everything else can be a mess. I know for a fact that Enhanced Blood Textures has caused problems.

However, a CTD after approximately the same amount of time can very well be a script spamming over and over, and, believe it or not, it can be a vanilla one, that is probably led astray by who knows what. (There is a notorious bard who is part of the DB questline who can cause CTDs if you don't "get rid" of him.)

AND DO NOT DO ANYTHING WITH PAPYRUS EXCEPT LOGGING BECAUSE YOUR COMPUTER WILL EXPLODE, YOUR HOUSE WILL BURN DOWN, AND THEN THE EARTH WILL COLLAPSE INTO A SINGULARITY, CAUSING A GIANT VORTEX THAT SUCKS IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE.

With script spamming - This is one case in which logging can help. If you end up with an enormous log file where one script goes over and over, that could be your culprit. (Which doesn't make it easy to solve, unfortunately.) You might also want to open your mod packages to see if there are scripts in there you don't know about, and bye-bye birdie, for sure.

It should also be noted that the SKSE.ini tweak (ClearInvalidRegistrations=1) is good, but it only clears up a certain kind of script. See Arthmoor's responses HERE.

In sum, just try and be selective about what you're installing and what it does. If you've got 10 different mods all adding NPCs to towns, and then 10 different mods all adding scripts to those NPCs, this could definitely become problematic for you.

And should your save be a hot-mess of scripty grossness...



For this, I give you siuan...

[Save Game Script Cleaner] is an actual save cleaner, with the Arthmoor seal of approval on it. Basically it will remove all orphaned scripts from a save, from when you uninstall a scripted mod and then save the game, and it's very easy to use. It will also get rid of renegade vanilla scripts, which is a good thing, since the Miraak boss battle script occasionally crashes my game. (Thank you, Dragonborn, for bugging out on me.) It has a lot of other features, but a lot of those are best left to people who Know More Stuff.

Here is your link: Save Game Script Cleaner by Hadoram.

If you are experiencing any "odd mesh behavior" specifically things either appearing, or not appearing, or showing up in a giant pile blocking doors or roads or entire buildings... Fear not! It's at least probably fixable. So please start by trying a "clean mod install", the process for which will differ slightly depending on which installer you're using, and is outlined below.

NOTE: IF YOU ARE USING AN ETAC PLAYER HOUSE, PLEASE REMOVE YOUR ITEMS FROM IT BEFORE ATTEMPTING THIS. OTHERWISE YOU ARE PROBABLY (DEFINITELY) GOING TO LOSE THEM.



(If you are NOT using Mod Organizer), try the following:

#1: Start by getting somewhere completely unedited (like Whiterun), save and exit;
#2: Uninstall ETaC COMPLETELY. Double check your data folder to make sure that everything is gone.
All patches, main files, meshes/textures/sounds/etc., the .bsa, the .esm. So on and so forth.
#3: Load your save, go to [whatever town this is happening in], and confirm everything is gone,
back to normal, right with the world.
#4: Get yourself back to somewhere un-edited and create a NEW save.
#5: Then uninstall any of the following: SMIM, WATER, Better Dynamic Snow, and/or ELFX.
#6: Re-install ETaC (please be sure you are using the most recent version.)
#7: Then re-install the following: SMIM, WATER, Better Dynamic Snow, and/or ELFX.
#8: Then then then... Re-install any of the ETaC Patches you were using.
#9: Load, go to [whatever town this was happening in]. Report back to me.



And if you ARE using Mod Organizer, I give you Edeldios:

#1: Get to somewhere unedited (like Whiterun); save and exit.
#2: Uncheck the boxes for ETaC & ETaC patches in your mod list - NOT THE PLUGIN LIST.
(This will disable all .esm, .bsa, .esp, meshes and textures from being accessed while in Skyrim.)
#3: Load your save, go to where the problem was happening and confirm things are back to normal.
#4: Get back to some unedited place, save, exit.
#5: Check the Boxes for ETaC and ETaC Patches and make sure that ETaC is above SMIM,
WATER, Better Dynamic Snow & ELFX in your mod list and the ETaC Patches are below.
(AGAIN THIS IS NOT THE PLUGIN LIST) It should be in this order:

} ETaC
} SMIM
} WATER
} Better Dynamic Snow
} ELFX
} ETaC Patches

It should also be noted that if you use No Snow Under the Roof, it needs to go above the ETaC Patches as well.

#6: Load save, go to where the problem was happening. Report Back to Jenna!

And, further from Eledios:

Mod Organizer is extremely user-friendly, but you also need to pay attention to any warnings it gives you. Most times it will tell you exactly which order mods need to be in order to function properly. If you see the warning triangle in the upper right corner go red it means you need to do some re-ordering.

Although, it is not fool proof, sometimes there will be a mod you may run into that will scramble your proper load order a bit - So, if you add a mod that gives you a warning to move other mods above or below each other that were in the opposite order before you installed the mod, then it's for the best to simply not use that mod. Trust me, I know from personal experience! It will make your game explode unless you are an expert and know exactly what you are doing.

UPDATE: One of the new features added [to MO] is a virtual install order auto-fix. If anything shows up as a virtual install order issue in the warning tab, there will be a fix button that will correct the order for you. It's all automated now - That being said it is still important to DOUBLE CHECK proper order as listed in the mesh section above just in case!

If it's STILL not working after - Let me know. And by "let me know" I mean PM me your load order along with a couple screenshots and any other relevant information. Happy to help if I can.

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj502/missjennabee/Light132_zps297d8993.png

If you are experiencing the "light flickering effect" while using ETaC (either with or without the ELFX) - ETaC adds lights. ELFX also adds lights. A LOT of lights and sources to Skyrim, a lot of them. Skyrim, however, has a little "bug" (and I'm using the word "bug" a bit loosely here, since it was actually done intentionally) with how it manages all of these lights. The result is the flickering effect. But fret not, my darling mod-user...

You can fix it by adding (or adjusting) the following line in your Skyrim.ini file:

Helps prevent lighting “pop-in” by pushing back the distance at which the lights begin to toggle. { Source }

[General]
fFlickeringLightDistance=8192

As the quote explains, this will tell Skyrim to push back the distance at which it beings with all the light flickering. The only alternative really for me, personally, to do anything about this (without the need for above adjustment) would be for me to redact the number of lights within interior spaces effected by ELFX and the patch down to ~4. Doing so (and the reason I have not) is that this is going pretty much going to leave you with vanilla lighting, and it's my belief based on that you've installed ELFX in the first place, that you'd prefer to not have vanilla-esque lighting.

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj502/missjennabee/Sound132_zps26a526e8.png

If you are experiencing strange phantom banging sounds in most of your interior cells, this is not actually an issue with this mod, and is instead an issue with Skyrim's fragile-little-flower physics engine. It generally occurs when you've disabled your vsync or if you've got unnecessarily high FPS...

The number one "fix" on this forum for Skyrim is to disable vSync through the "iPresentInterval = 0" tweak in the INI file. However over the last week or so it's come to many people's attention that disabling vSync this way causes all manner of bugs and glitches...

Crazy Physics
Allowing your FPS to go over 60fps causes the physics engine to go a bit out of control. The slightest touch, even opening a door, can send pots and pans 10 foot away flying all over the place. Whilst this may seem funny, it can have disastrous consequences if a really important item flies so fast it gltches out of the playable area.

This can however be solved by limiting your FPS to 60 or lower.

The sounds are just a result of "the physics engine go[ing] a bit out of control" - You can read more about this here.

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj502/missjennabee/LoadOrder132_zpsc5e99a3f.png

Things like BOSS or Loot are good - Great even. Particularly for people who are not well versed in the intricacies of "load order". BUT! Sadly, sometimes human intervention is still necessary. If you've made the decision to run a thousand mods (like the rest of us) then YOU are the one responsible for policing it. AND YES! This is a giant pain in your ass. It's a giant pain my ass too. It's a giant pain in all asses everywhere... but it's important.

In sum, treat BOSS/Loot more as a guide - run it once to get all your mods into a loose order, and then go through and re-arrange.

What I personally do, along with some others, and have been successful with so far (fingers crossed) is use a kindergarten approach to load order and try and "group" my mods. Meaning that similar mods are all going together. (More on this shortly, but first...)

I give you Edeldios:

After doing a lot of mod testing over the last few months, I've discovered that most "bugs" are caused by either load order issues or incompatible mods. There seem to be 3 mods in particular that are affected more than others by load order issues and in different ways.

1. Alternate Start - Live Another Life by Arthmoor: The innkeeper in Dragon Bridge won't talk to you for the quest that will link you to what happened in Helgen.

2. Epic Gameplay Overhaul by Apollodawn: Scripts will get scrambled and your game will implode by level 30 or 40. Especially if you use Civil War Overhaul.

3. Expanded towns and Cities: Added vendors won't sell, and you may get weird mesh issues in various places.

Keep in mind that all of these issues are a direct result of improper load order. So after extensive research I figured I'd share a few tips and tricks to help anyone experiencing problems like I did.

First: Hitting the sort button on either Boss or LOOT will not finish the job, you still need to manually move some of your plugins to make things work correctly. ALWAYS make sure to follow the mod author's instructions on where to place the plugin in relation to other mod's plugins!

Second: Load order becomes more important the more mods you have in your game!

150 Plugins or Less: Hit sort and your game should be ok for the most part,
just make sure to follow load order instructions by authors.

150-200 Plugins: You are in the caution zone, you will definitely have to move
a few plugins yourself, but you may be able to get by without it. It's a risk!

200-255 (a/k/a Max) Plugins: You are in the red and are going to have to carefully move
all plugins in your load order so your game won't explode.

Third: Ysolda is your mod-mine-canary. If she doesn't give you the Mammoth Tusk Quest - your load order needs attention!

Finally: After you run sort in BOSS/LOOT, here's a general guide for getting your plugins in the right order:

#01: Your ESM Files;
#02: Bug-Fix type Mods;
#03: Game Structure and/or UI Mods:
#04: Character Appearance Mods (For NPCs and Self);
#05: Mods that Add and/or Change Locations; *
#06: Mods that Add and/or Change Items;
#07: Mods that Add NPCs;
#08: Texture Mods;
#09: Environmental Mods (things like Climates of Tamriel, Sounds of Skyrim, etc.);
#10: Mods with Gameplay Changes; Then,
#11: Reproccers, AV, and Bashed Patches.

* Note: Some follower mods do add new locations. For example, the Arissa mod adds a new cave as part of her quest line. In cases like this, Arissa, and any follower mod that adds a new location, would be placed in your load order along with anything that adds or changes a location, and NOT with mods that add NPCs.

Even after following these guidelines you still need to make sure that you properly follow plugin placement rules as outlined by the mod author.

Hope this is helpful to anyone experiencing issues with ETaC!

Note: If using it, very few mods should ever be loaded after your Bashed Patch. There are SOME exceptions, but those mods will likely tell you that upfront.

Generally speaking, all of your "fix" type mods (like HD texture pack fixes, or Unofficial patches) you want at the very tippy-top. Most other mods tend to fix things as they see them (this mod included), so you want these overwritten where necessary. Your load order is essentially just to determine a hierarchy in conflicts. In the case of ETaC... well it adds a lot of "stuff" but it really doesn't make any script, quest, companion, environmental, etc. changes. So usually you'll want to load things making those sorts of changes AFTER, but things making other environment changes BEFORE. Since things going down the list are technically, sort of, overwriting the things above it.

AND, as mentioned above, when in doubt - ask the mod authors. They'll know better than anybody else where their mod needs to be placed in relation to other mods to be able to function properly and with minimal conflicts.

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj502/missjennabee/anyway_zpsa9920eea.png

Edited by missjennabee, 04 November 2014 - 12:47 PM.

[Nazenn]

I noticed that this includes a section about how much grass can impact FPS and thought I might contribute this here so you can include it if you deem it helpful enough for those experiencing issues, especially in grass heavy areas. I use a mod called grass on steriods ( http://www.nexusmods...im/mods/33582/? ) which can help boost your fps massively, and is actually one of the things which helps me avoid too much of an fps drop in falkreath while using ETaC and SFO, and even has helped avoid running out of memory in such areas. Asa did a good comparison showing that it can have a good boost, and I got an even bigger boost then asa did ( http://www.nexusmods...im/mods/56098/? )
Hope thats helpful in some way, and thanks again for all the work you put in on these forums, its much appreciated

[calfurius]

For some reason I can't continue the "laid to rest quest" in Morthal. I can't talk to Thonnir after I kill Laelete and active the child's coffin. He doesn't even approach the coffin, he just stands there between two houses.