113 replies to this topic

[tonycubed2]

In response to post #17064449. #17068724, #17072624, #17075694, #17075819, #17076014, #17076489, #17076569 are all replies on the same post.

We need all lvl predator entries gone, totally.wrthet ,mine or uskp. We want sot to,not touch lvl predator atball. That way people will use the fix they want. Uskp or steve40.

So if I edit armors, it automatically goes to the official esp? So what do I have to do manual? Sounds too easy.

[FireFreak111]

In response to post #17064449. #17068724, #17072624, #17075694, #17075819, #17076014, #17076489, #17076569, #17077469 are all replies on the same post.

There are two ways you can approach development here.

First is to simply do stuff as you do now, on the false .esm, and then once the update is ready to be released, Deep Copy/Copy any edited vanilla records over to the ESP and delete these records from the ESM. No worrying about which file to edit, just move the vanilla edits to the ESP once your done.

Other way is this: When you are adding new content (a new armour, merging a mod with new content, editing the world, placing things in it, anything new), edit the .ESM. When you are altering something from vanilla (editing a vanilla NPC or Armour, etc), you load the ESP and do it there. However, with this method, you should still check via Tes5EDIT if any vanilla entries are in the ESM that aren't Cell/Worldspace edits.

I recommend method one to be honest, its easier.

Changing any references to the duplicate lvlpredators to the vanilla ones, and removing them. Will reupload. If I'm to be honest, I don't know why SoT duplicates every vanilla NPC then references them, many I can see the point in, due to custom keywords, but many aren't even edited, and just prevent any other mods changes from carrying through.

Reuploaded, all lvlpredator entries are gone and reference vanilla entries. Good step forward.

Edited by FireFreak111, 01 August 2014 - 12:19 AM.

[FishBiter]

In response to post #17064449. #17068724, #17072624, #17075694, #17075819, #17076014, #17076489, #17076569, #17077469, #17077824, #17078269 are all replies on the same post.

Why does this sound so much more complicated all of a sudden than just "flip the mod to an esm and continue as normal" ?

If it really requires two pages of documentation to move forward, then we should probably wait on this. Tony has a lot on his plate already, we don't want to add any more series of hoops for him to jump through. The mod was working fine, and we don't want to risk messing it up just because a few people flipped the mod to .esm and then ran the game for a few hours and imagined it was more stable (happens all the time with .ini tweaks and useless memory tricks... enb's author has plenty to say on this)



PS - we already have a USKP patch, that all is covered. If any of the other unofficial patches have issues that need to be added, PM that information to me, I take care of that, not Tony.


PSS - Tony... remember how you said it was extremely unlikely when a certain someone else talked about splitting the mod into two .esps? Remember how shortly after that the issues that would require that were completely removed. What you doin man? u_u

Edited by FishBiter, 01 August 2014 - 12:32 AM.

[FireFreak111]

In response to post #17064449. #17068724, #17072624, #17075694, #17075819, #17076014, #17076489, #17076569, #17077469, #17077824, #17078154, #17078319, #17078344 are all replies on the same post.

If I had just posted a random file and said 'use this', then what would be the point. No-one should trust a file like that. The documentation is here and it's detailed to avoid stress and issues. Wanted to be as clear as I could. It's not a hard process. Once its done the first time round (as my files are), then from there on its relatively easy to keep it up. All you have to do is copy any yellow highlighted forms in Tes5EDIT (which are always at the top of a category, easy to find) into the other ESP with a two click process, then right click remove them from the ESM. 5-10 mins work max before the weekly/montly update is released.

This isn't magic pixie dust solutions. This is a method the USKP took because they saw problems with the engine's handling of ESP files with many edits, especially on the worldspace/cells.

Sooner then later is the better course of action. Get the mod clean and compliant, then move on without much effort.

This is posted so any of you guys can do this, doesn't have to be one person.

Edited by FireFreak111, 01 August 2014 - 12:41 AM.

[FishBiter]

In response to post #17064449. #17068724, #17072624, #17075694, #17075819, #17076014, #17076489, #17076569, #17077469, #17077824, #17078154, #17078269 are all replies on the same post.

The mod is already compliant. A USKP patch already exists. You seriously didn't know about that?

At this point though, I can't endorse this anymore.

Edited by FishBiter, 01 August 2014 - 12:35 AM.

[FireFreak111]

In response to post #17064449. #17068724, #17072624, #17075694, #17075819, #17076014, #17076489, #17076569, #17077469, #17077824, #17078154, #17078269, #17078319, #17078524, #17078679, #17078754, #17078789, #17078879, #17078894, #17078944, #17078949, #17078964, #17079054, #17080054, #17080454, #17080504, #17080529, #17080664, #17080754, #17080934, #17081169, #17081339 are all replies on the same post.

I knew that. It shouldn't be left to an additional patch. There is no point keeping it seperate. Who doesn't have the USKP?

Edited by FireFreak111, 02 August 2014 - 12:03 AM.

[FishBiter]

In response to post #17064449. #17068724, #17072624, #17075694, #17075819, #17076014, #17076489, #17076569, #17077469, #17077824, #17078154, #17078269, #17078319, #17078344 are all replies on the same post.

Tony and many of us already decided that adding USKP dependency to the mod was a no go. Not sure why he would suddenly have changed his mind on that.


Further, you seem to be tacking that on to the esm issue. I initially supported the fake-esm idea because it sounded simple. If it's not as simple as it was initially described and adds extra steps to the process, then I change my position based on that information. The mod was working fine for many people- given that, it's a poor course of action to go changing a whole lot of things for a "maybe".


If changing the mod to an esm requires all sorts of other things to be done as well, then I recommend against it. The ship is sailing fine, don't tear down the sails to install new ones for what might be a slight increase in sailing speed.

Seperate the esm issue and the uskp issue.

Edited by FishBiter, 01 August 2014 - 12:45 AM.

[tonycubed2]

In response to post #17064449. #17068724, #17072624, #17075694, #17075819, #17076014, #17076489, #17076569, #17077469, #17077824, #17078154, #17078269, #17078319, #17078344, #17078524 are all replies on the same post.

The uskp issue , again, may be better kept away from the mod based on the likelihood that the uskp team are changing it to a single update solution.

[FireFreak111]

In response to post #17064449. #17068724, #17072624, #17075694, #17075819, #17076014, #17076489, #17076569, #17077469, #17077824, #17078154, #17078269, #17078319, #17078344, #17078524, #17078679, #17078789 are all replies on the same post.

I did separate the issue, I uploaded my files as an example, and leave them at SoT's mercy. USKP changes are documented there, they can be tackled at will. I posted this on the comments section:

They have delayed it to next year. Poll showed 25% didn't have DLC, and they weren't ready to abandon that. Also, the DLC patches dont need to be a dependency, so absolutely nothing would change if the USKP was added. Only mods that depend on the DLC patches would have issues.

Since I am not including the DLC dependencies (they are unnecessary), this mod would be 100% compatible with the merged update next year. Only mods that have the DLC patches as a dependency (Unofficial Dawnguard Patch, etc) will have issues. So adding the USKP as a master will have no difference to doing it in a years time. With it as a master, any changes you make to vanilla records will be based on USKP changes. Helps conformance.

Again, the .esm issue isn't a super hard problem to deal with. Keeping them split is incredibly easy to maintain. You could just tag it as false .esm and be done with it, but you come into the problem of all SoT's edits being overridden by other mods below the .esm. That's why I split it. It keeps the massive edits SoT makes at the top of the load order in a false .esm (still false, even if its split, still uses the .esp extension for max compatibility) and the conflicting edits at the bottom. Best scenario I can come up with for maximum stability and compatibility.

Im not trying to be hostile or divide the team or anything like that. Just trying to help SoT be as stable and compatible as possible.

Arthmoor Posted 28 July 2014 - 11:05 AM
Polling has concluded - as promised, here are the results gathered from all 6 sites:

For the unified file: 263 (75.6%)
Against the unified file: 85 (24.4%)

At this time, we do not feel it would be appropriate to cut off 25% of the user base from being able to use the patches.

With that said, support *IS* high enough that we will be planning to move forward on this within the next year. There's every reason to believe that with current rates of reporting that all 3 DLCs will have few if any significant bug fixes to come in between now and then and a unified version will make much more sense at that time than it apparently does now.

Keep in mind, the poll numbers were slightly misleading. Posts in the thread indicate a much stronger underlying trend against unification right now. Maybe after the fall and winter Steam sales things will change. For now we'll continue as we have been.

Edited by FireFreak111, 01 August 2014 - 01:02 AM.

[FishBiter]

In response to post #17064449. #17068724, #17072624, #17075694, #17075819, #17076014, #17076489, #17076569, #17077469, #17077824, #17078154, #17078269, #17078319, #17078344, #17078524, #17078679, #17078754 are all replies on the same post.

FireFreak you did catch the part where I mentioned that we have a USKP-dependent patch already, right?

If this is a patch issue, don't worry, SoT has a patch guy who's willing to tackle it. What you need to do then is seperate the issue into it's individual parts.


The USKP issue? Already being handled by a certain someone. Feel free to contact them and give them your input on what needs to be added to that, as a seperate issue.


Now seperate the esm and the splitting issue.

Make one post that ONLY says what needs to be done to make the mod into an .esm, ignoring the "other mods might overwrite stuff" issue.


Seperate out the "splitting the mod" issue into another post. Let us get a more clear picture of the things we're dealing with here, and we can figure out specifically what the impact on Ton'y work load is, because that's the part I'm most concerned with.

Edited by FishBiter, 01 August 2014 - 01:04 AM.