158 replies to this topic

[Kestrellius]

Wait okay hold on so. I finally actually read and understood (mostly) The Arcturian Heresy. (I was stuck in Winterhold after taking it with CWO, and I didn't want to leave because I'd freeze to death via Frostfall, but the town was still in post-battle recuperation mode, so none of the merchants were active or anything. So I wound up reading through half of Nelecar's library.) Anyway, I finally understand how Talos can be five people now, but the Kalpa thing has thrown me for a loop. So, the sequence of events is something I'm still a bit muddled about. It goes something like this, right?

 

The creation of Mundus; the trial of Lorkhan, the Convention, etc.

The et'Ada trapped on Mundus begin to change into mortals.

The Ayleids split off from men.

The Ayleids develop into subraces, including the Aldmer and the Dwemer.

The Dwemer Numidiumify themselves at Red Mountain.

Azura curses/notices the curse on the Chimer, making them Dunmer.

The Dragon War happens.

At some point in here, the Aldmer become the Altmer.

The early form of the Empire is born.

ESO happens(?)

Tiber Septim starts doing Tiber Septimy things.

The TES games happen.

 

Right? Or do I have the order wrong? And where are the era breaks? According to in-game books, the Cyrodillic Empire was around in some form at the end of the First Era, and IIRC Talos's rise to power marked the beginning of the Third. So did the Dragon War happen toward the end of the Merethic Era? Did the Merethic Era start with the solidification of Mundus? And when exactly was the Dragon War; was it actually before all the business with the Chimer and Dwemer at Red Mountain?

 

But more to the point. Where does the Kalpa reset? It's sort of a time loop, right? So...when a new Kalpa starts, does it reset to right after the Convention?

[Lachdonin]

Ok, basically it goes like;

 

Constants

Lorkhan comes up with Mundus, convinces most of the Et'ada to help

Magnus and some others discover that Mundus will drain their power, and escape

Those Et'ada who remain wage war, some siding with Lorkhan (the Wanderers) and some against him (the Old Ehlnofey)

Lorkhan is defeated, and put on Trial

     He is found guilty and Executed

     His heart is cut out in the presence of the Divines

     This is the moment of Convention, when time becomes linear

 

Kalpa-Specific events Only happened in this Kalpa, or at least are not 100% sure events

The Aldmer (descendants of the Old Ehlnofey) settle across Tamriel, breaking into the Dwemer, Ayleids, Falmer, Chimer and Bosmer

The Humans of Atmora settle Northren Tamriel

     Saarthal is destroyed

     Ysgramor returns and wipes out the Falmer

-Sometime in the late Merethic- The Dragon War happens

Alessia founds the First Empire by defeating the Ayleids)

The Battle of Red Mountain sees the Dwemer disappear

The Alessian Order creates the Middle Dawn, a thousand year long Dragon Break

Reman founds the Second Empire

The Interregnum (during which ESO takes place)

Hjalti Early-Beard, under the guise of Talos Stormcrown, founds the 3rd Empire, with the help of Wulfhearth and Zurin Arctus

 

 

Presumably, the Kalpa resets at 'two rings of the Allmaker's Bell". Whatever that means. It is implied in the Seven Fights, however, that this is supposed to happen before something like Landfall kicks in. Alduin is late in this Kalpa, that's all we know for sure. 

 

When the Kalpa resets, it goes back to the moment time became Linear. So every Kalpa has the same 'beginning', and diverges from there.

[monganfinn]

When the Kalpa resets, it goes back to the moment time became Linear

Which is exactly where I see a problem.

According to lore time became linear with the birth of Akatosh which in turn made it easier for the other et´ada to manifest. The convention was outside of aurbic time and thus doesn´t count. Or perhaps it is simply a fixed occurence, but certainly not part of linear time. Was a new different linear time line created just for Mundus?

How then can there be a different time system in Mundus and Oblivion and Aetherius? Why doens´t a new calpa beginn with the birth of Akatosh?

 

The Allmaker could perhaps refer to either Pandomay/Sithis or the Dreamer/Godhead - Anu?.

In Hinduism the Kalpa is a single day in the life of the creator Brahma, perhaps the TES calpa refers to the same and the two bells indicate a partial awakening?

Edited by monganfinn, 06 September 2014 - 06:53 PM.

[Lachdonin]

When Aka was born, time was born with him. Aka represents past, present and future, and those concepts together made it easier for other Et'ads to comprehend their own limits by creating the concepts of Before and After.

The imposition of a singular, linear timeline did not happen, however, until the Convention, and that linear timeline only seems to affect Mundus.

[Kestrellius]

Oh, okay. So Red Mountain happened a good deal later than I'd thought...

[Lachdonin]

Yeah, when you start talking about time as a multitudinal concept rather than a linear progression of events things start getting weird... As far as linear time goes, Red Mountain was created within moments of time beginning. It exists in all Kalpa's because, when linear time starts, the Heart is already falling to Nirn.

[Kestrellius]

Well I mean the Battle of Red Mountain and the disappearance of the Dwemer.

 

Hm. Maybe the defeat of the Thalmor in TES VIII will involve the Numidium, and it'll be destroyed somehow, bringing back the Dwemer? And then the next arc will be dealing with the aftermath.

[Lachdonin]

Well, according to Kirkbride... the Thalmor win. They totally annihilate Mankind, the Redguard flee to Oblivion and become Daedra-Cyborgs, and the Dunmer and Khajiit live on the moons...

[Kestrellius]

I've always basically interpreted that as a possible outcome, but not necessarily what will happen in the alpha timeline. Also, that could mean anything, really...it's possible that they only "win" way after the fact, by virtue of Mundus being destroyed under completely different circumstances. And hold on. Wouldn't a proper Thalmor victory mean the destruction of the moons, as well? Aren't they sort of part of Mundus? I mean, time exists there, right?

 

Speaking of the Khajiit, I read some speculation about them being a Tower or a Stone or something. Don't remember the details, but it got me thinking...what if the beast races are the key to everything? They're certainly the weirdest of the standard races. But if the Khajiit are fundamentally Anuic, and the Argonians fundamentally Padomaic (they do indirectly worship Sithis), that could have some very interesting implications...

 

It also lends a certain degree of credence to my theory that the Khajiit only joined the Dominion to attack it economically from the inside.

[notmyhome]

I think I remember Kirkbride saying that Elder Scrolls is fundamentally about Mer vs. Men and the Beast races are only "decoration".