158 replies to this topic

[monganfinn]

Well naturally there wouldn´t be any heroes from other kalpas as it is a nordic hero heaven, unless there was another nordic culture in another kalpa?

Still, so much for their claims of eternity!

On the other hand Aetherius houses the dreamsleave, no? Thus there would be a lot of "mortal" souls around. The moons would be logical if they really are the body of Lorkhan.

Still as they always describe Aetherius as unchanging and eternal it sounds a lot like Aetherius.

[Lachdonin]

We''re not entirely sure where the Dreamsleve is either. Some of the older theories are that it exists between Oblivion and Aetherius. The newest one, born out of the revelation that water is memory, is that the Dreamsleve is the ocean.

We do know that Nord-like cultures existed in all Kalpas though, because the splitting of the Wanderers happened before the Convention. The creation of Shor also seems to be a consistency, implying that Sivengarde, the afterlife created by Shor, likewise exists.

To tie this back together... Bear in mind that the Divines designed the system to essentially do exactly what the Thalmor would. Every time the Kalpa turns over, everyone is erased. If tthe Thalmors end goal constitutes genocide, then the Aedra are responsible for the same many, many times over.

[monganfinn]

Still something must be not reset as there is actuall knowledge among the Redguards and Nords.

: then the Aedra are responsible for the same many, many times over.

 

As I wrote above they are all "grey" - aren´t there even sources that say that each calpa the roles of the aedra and daedra swap?

Furthermore, do we know what is reset each calpa? Only Mundus or is Sithis wish answered at end of each calpa and immediately broken again?

Or does it simply return to the time of the convention - if so Aetherius and Oblivion should be unchanged right and I read that from Aetherius and Oblivion each different calpa could be accessed as Vivec did in c0da?

[Urtel]

Hold on, hold on. Daedric princes created their own separate planes after Creation, right? But i suppose those worlds have nothing to do with "undoing" of Mundus. So those bound to Oblivion are no more part of Mundus, right? Same with those in Soul Cairn, i guess? If this is true, then those worshipping daedra and selling their souls are not so stupid from mortal poit of view)))

[Lachdonin]

Well, we do know some mortal souls escape. Haskil was once mortal, but has served Sheogorath for many more ages than have existed in this Kalpa. That heavily implies that mortals CAN escape through pledging themselves to the Daedra. That said, there has also been a spattering of sources, mostly from Daggerfall and Skyrim, which indicate that eventually souls fade away from the realms of Oblivion... So serving a Daedra, if they do not keep you there (Haskil is empowered by Sheogorath) eventually fade away altogether. 

[Urtel]

But to empower a soul you need a source of that power. I highly doubt daedra are using their own power to feed up minions. So that means daedra need mortal plain as a source of power to keep minions for eternity. There are probably enough lesser daedra to serve, but eventially they will varnish aswell, so... Most daedric princes should be against Thalmor on this "undoing plan". Since without mortal plain how can they prove their own nature. Mundus always was their playground. And i think Dagon should be especially against that, since he wants Mundus for himself... That actually brings me to some other concerning thing about Dagon, Alduin and Mundus... gonna search that on forums, but anyway its not connected to this topic. Dunno, even after all this talk i still dislike Dominion. I never felt like strong hatred, but its hard to like someone willing to erase things around you.

[Lachdonin]

Oh, i don't think they're all cuddles and sunshine, and they're definitely not doing what's BEST for the universe. But they are like the Stormcloaks in that their concerns and their goals have genuine roots, even if they've been twisted by politics and hatred. 

 

As for the source of power for the Daedra... They are sustained by the energies of Aetherius, the pure creatia which permeates the Aubris. It flows through the waters of Oblivion, sustaining and revitalising them. Their power comes from the very fabric of reality its self, and not from mortal souls. Though, that does raise some questions... If a Mortal basks in the Waters of Oblivion long enough, do they become a Daedra?

[monganfinn]

That depends on how you define daedra. But I guess you don´t really become a daedra but rather a new existence alltogether similar to the daedra. But according to some book showing the worshippers of Sithis POV Aetherius and Mundus are both just planes of oblivion with different principles governing them. Only the aedra draw power from mortal worship right? The Daedra are more interested in harvesting souls for their playgrounds - well most daedra.

It is probably safe to assume that not every calpa is the same as the others, if not that would be boring. But that means that logically the elements at the point of beginning have to change to some degree. Those foreing elements could be objects or people from the previous calpa.

Another point is that if you look at hinduism or budhhism from which tes lore draws from - calpa f.ex. - there ways for previously mortal beings to ascend to a plane untouched by the cyclic destruction. Thus one could argue that such an option would be possible in tes as well.

[LeddBate]

There will be no more "cycles" in my game. This time the Kalpa will not turn over. This isn't game lore, it's just what I have decided is happening in my game for role-playing purposes. So please, don't say: "You're wrong because (reasons)." I'm not trying to convince anyone else of this. The following is MY role-playing take on what is happening in my game only.

 

The cycle has continued all these repetitions looking for the "ultimate expression". This is the final cycle. If Alduin succeeds, Mundis ends. No more cycles. If the Thalmor succeeds, the cycles will start anew as this "ultimate expression" has failed due to their tampering. (This nearly happened with the Dwemer and was barely avoided.) If Alduin is defeated, there will be no more cycles as this Mundis is stabilized for all eternity. The long-term result of this is that Tamriel will slowly develop technology (so very slowly due to the fact that magick and alchemy do so many of the things that we use tech for.)

 

The Aedra and Daedra sense this but cannot quite wrap their minds about it. They are slaves to the cycles and even if they can understand it intellectually, they simply cannot believe it will actually happen. Mortals (even the Dragonborn) are oblivious to this with the exception of the Greybeards and a few individuals. Alduin certainly understands this -as well as Paarthurnax. As my Dragonborn character absorbs dragon souls and then defeats Alduin (hopefully, I might flub it) -then he will slowly come to understand just what is transpiring.

 

Let me repeat. This is my interpretation of Mundis. Strictly for my personal enjoyment.

[Lachdonin]

There is certainly some evidence to support that this is the final Kalpa. At the very least, it is the Aka's favorite, as he seems to be constantly intervening to keep is going past its best-before dates. First he creates the Dragonbkrn lines, and the Prophecy. Then he makes the pact for the Dragonfires. He empowers Reman to become a demigod, and again to strengthen Septim.

I'm not so sure that this is because this is the LAST turn of the cycle, and think it's more because the systam is actually working this time... I mean, we have 2 know CHIM, and a potential 3rd, which is more than every other Kalpa combined.

That said, the 'Last Kalpa' theory is a popular one, and there's enough evidence, circumstantial as it may be, to support it.