[WIP] Skyrim: Race Matters

[griefmyst]

Skyrim: Race Matters

 

Thank you for the wonderful response on here, and on Reddit! These are not the only playable races the mod will apply to, they are simply the only ones I've planned out. I've been working on the Khajiit for the time being, and will happily post a small, playable demo when it's finished.

 

I've addressed some questions towards the bottom.

 

One thing I’ve felt was a little lackluster and fairly immersion breaking was the fact that beyond a mean comment here or there, the race you chose to play as didn’t really impact your game play or relations with the world of Skyrim and her people.

 

It simply did not make sense to me that you could roll on up to the Stormcloaks as a High Elf, or sneak around as a Khajiit without issue.

 

After a bit of experimenting in Skyrim, I started to plan the mod as a series of adjustments and conditions for your character based on your race. I don’t intend to go adding an insane amount of assets or customize any scripting, I simply prefer to stick within the existing framework using existing assets where possible.

 

Here are some examples of some changes:

 

Khajiit

• more likely to be followed around stores

• more likely to have people watching you

• kicked out of store if purchase isn’t made within a certain amount of time

• more likely to be accused of theft, even if innocent, especially if your armour is above a certain value

• have to complete more side quests in order to “prove” worthy (ie: to become Thane)

• items cost more, rooms cost more

• higher bounty, longer jail time

• Khajiit NPC friendlier and will open their homes to you

• Khajiit merchants provide better price for items

• Khajiit caravan provide a bed roll and discounts

• Khajiit merchants will fence items of lower value

 

Argonian

• more likely to be followed around stores

• more likely to have people watching you

• more likely to be stopped when stealthing during day near guards

• kicked out of store if purchase isn’t made within a certain amount of time

• asked to leave if stealthed near shopkeeper

• more likely to be accused of theft, even if innocent, especially if your armour is above a certain value

• unable to own a home in certain cities

• have to complete more side quests in order to “prove” worthy (ie: to become Thane)

• items cost more, rooms cost more

• higher bounty, longer jail time

• Argonian NPC can fence items of lower value

 

Nord

• less likely to be followed around stores

• more likely to get away with crime, theft, etc

• Nazeem isn’t a dick to you if you are a Nord with a lot of money

• Nord cities and merchants provide better discounts, freebie items

• Stolen goods under a certain value less likely to be seen as stolen goods

• lower bounty, lower jail time

• Guards more likely to turn a blind eye

• Stormcloak members likely to aid you if you are attacked outside of a city

• More to prove to get in the Mages College

 

High Elf/Altmer

• In Nord dominant cities:

  • denied room rental at tavern

  • denied entry in many shops

  • Must disguise self with hood in order to move around safely within city

• In Imperial cities:

  • able to rent room but at slightly higher price

  • higher prices in shops

• Nord NPCs will refuse to speak to Altmer in most circumstances unless you “prove” yourself to them

• Thalmor Justiciar will help you if you are attacked in view

• Stormcloak members will attack you if you are alone outside of a city

• No chance of becoming Thane in Nord dominant holds

• Have to prove more to become Thane in other areas

• High Elf NPCs friendlier to you

• High Elf NPC with homes will open their home and bed to you

 

Imperials

In progress.

 

Orcs

In progress.

 

Bosmer

In progress.

 

Dunmer

In progress.

 

Red Guard

In progress.

 

Breton

In progress.

 

 

Additional notes...

 

1. NPC demeanor, of course, will be a factor. I wouldn't expect someone like Ysolda who is sympathetic towards the Khajiit to turn around and suddenly begin to hate on Khajiit in the next sentence.

 

2. Each race will have varying degrees of difficulty, with some being easier than others. Naturally, in some regions the High Elves will have it harder than in other regions. Just because you are barred from an area, however, doesn't mean you can't find another way in. It just requires a bit of stealth and clever thinking. There will be assets available for you that would assist you in navigating these harder areas -- a cloak/hood that offers cover for a certain amount of time.

 

3. This is lore friendly. For those of you who cannot understand the reasoning behind some of this, please read up on the lore and talk to some of the NPCs. Argonians and Khajiit are universally thought of to be untrustworthy, thieves, etc with Argonians outright banned in Windhelm.

 

4. On top of drawing from lore, the actions also draw from how things were during similar points of our own history. For those who don't believe a Stormcloak member -- a member of a heavily nationalistic group -- would attack someone based on their race, please look up incidents of hate crimes in our history. It won't mean they would actively seek you out, it would operate more based on a % likelihood vs your visibility, lighting factor, and whether you're outside of the city and in range of other people or not.

 

5. Custom recorded dialogue is not on my radar. There are several unused conversations in the CK that can be appropriated and turned in to something interactive. I'd like to focus on the actual balance itself before getting in to more advanced customization.

Edited September 26, 2014 by griefmyst

[TWarrior]

hell yeah! do it do it do it!! i hope you can change certain values in the ck to achieve the desired effect ingame. if they dont work, you might want to try easier doable options that provide the same feel.

 

but technically you could do an easy check race script and apply conditons to it e.g.: get race khajit , set dialogue xy inactive. you can also change certain race conditions on quests, actions and dialogue. plus you can change money values while trading (check "trade and barter" mod)

[griefmyst]

hell yeah! do it do it do it!! i hope you can change certain values in the ck to achieve the desired effect ingame. if they dont work, you might want to try easier doable options that provide the same feel.

 

but technically you could do an easy check race script and apply conditons to it e.g.: get race khajit , set dialogue xy inactive. you can also change certain race conditions on quests, actions and dialogue. plus you can change money values while trading (check "trade and barter" mod)

 

Prettttty much! Much (if not all) of this can be accomplished with factions and as you said, condition functions. :)

[LoneWolfEburg]

Trade & Barter mod already has trade prices racial adjustments, so this part is already implemented, at least. Also see the guard enforcers at the gates of Inconsequential NPCs, or even the characters of own "More Racism in Windhelm" mini-mod.

 

I actually think that the best way to add more racism to Skyrim is to add more quests dealing with it (I'd add them myself, but I can't script worth a damn). Still, your approach also has some merits.

 

You'll have to keep NPC/already done quests exceptions in mind, though. If you're already a Thane (and maybe some other conditions, like defeating Alduin) people should be less suspicious of you. Also, it doesn't really make sense for characters like Keerava and Talen-Jei to demonstrate Nord chauvinism, even though they're innkeepers in a pro-Stormcloak hold.

 

The Altmer thingy sounds a bit too much, especially considering the relatively cheerful demeanour of the Altmer population in Windhelm.

Edited September 25, 2014 by LoneWolfEburg

[mlee3141]

I agree with LoneWolf. Those should only apply if you're a High Elf, and happen to be wearing Elven Armor/ Thalmor Robes.

[Mattiewagg]

Trade & Barter mod already has trade prices racial adjustments, so this part is already implemented, at least. Also see the guard enforcers at the gates of Inconsequential NPCs, or even the characters of own "More Racism in Windhelm" mini-mod.

 

I actually think that the best way to add more racism to Skyrim is to add more quests dealing with it (I'd add them myself, but I can't script worth a damn). Still, your approach also has some merits.

 

You'll have to keep NPC/already done quests exceptions in mind, though. If you're already a Thane (and maybe some other conditions, like defeating Alduin) people should be less suspicious of you. Also, it doesn't really make sense for characters like Keerava and Talen-Jei to demonstrate Nord chauvinism, even though they're innkeepers in a pro-Stormcloak hold.

 

The Altmer thingy sounds a bit too much, especially considering the relatively cheerful demeanour of the Altmer population in Windhelm.

I'm going to add some more racist/racism revolving quests in my mod Immersive Quests (see my signature - also griefmyst I hope at some point you'll be able to voice one of the character's, Vulon mentioned it). Disrupted Service mentions it a lot, but I intend to have a few that actually revolve around it.

[griefmyst]

 

Trade & Barter mod already has trade prices racial adjustments, so this part is already implemented, at least. Also see the guard enforcers at the gates of Inconsequential NPCs, or even the characters of own "More Racism in Windhelm" mini-mod.

 

I actually think that the best way to add more racism to Skyrim is to add more quests dealing with it (I'd add them myself, but I can't script worth a damn). Still, your approach also has some merits.

 

You'll have to keep NPC/already done quests exceptions in mind, though. If you're already a Thane (and maybe some other conditions, like defeating Alduin) people should be less suspicious of you. Also, it doesn't really make sense for characters like Keerava and Talen-Jei to demonstrate Nord chauvinism, even though they're innkeepers in a pro-Stormcloak hold.

 

The Altmer thingy sounds a bit too much, especially considering the relatively cheerful demeanour of the Altmer population in Windhelm.

I'm going to add some more racist/racism revolving quests in my mod Immersive Quests (see my signature - also griefmyst I hope at some point you'll be able to voice one of the character's, Vulon mentioned it). Disrupted Service mentions it a lot, but I intend to have a few that actually revolve around it.

 

 

Sure thing, send me a message :)

[Mattiewagg]

 

 

Trade & Barter mod already has trade prices racial adjustments, so this part is already implemented, at least. Also see the guard enforcers at the gates of Inconsequential NPCs, or even the characters of own "More Racism in Windhelm" mini-mod.

 

I actually think that the best way to add more racism to Skyrim is to add more quests dealing with it (I'd add them myself, but I can't script worth a damn). Still, your approach also has some merits.

 

You'll have to keep NPC/already done quests exceptions in mind, though. If you're already a Thane (and maybe some other conditions, like defeating Alduin) people should be less suspicious of you. Also, it doesn't really make sense for characters like Keerava and Talen-Jei to demonstrate Nord chauvinism, even though they're innkeepers in a pro-Stormcloak hold.

 

The Altmer thingy sounds a bit too much, especially considering the relatively cheerful demeanour of the Altmer population in Windhelm.

I'm going to add some more racist/racism revolving quests in my mod Immersive Quests (see my signature - also griefmyst I hope at some point you'll be able to voice one of the character's, Vulon mentioned it). Disrupted Service mentions it a lot, but I intend to have a few that actually revolve around it.

 

 

Sure thing, send me a message :smile:

 

Maybe not yet. It's for the next quest, which'll take a while yet since Vulon wants to write it up and I have to finish this one. But your VAing work is pretty great.

 

Back on topic: I completely agree with the fact that racism is barely touched upon and is very superficial in Skyrim, like many things. I think the High Elf one is a LITTLE harsh. Yes, they hate the Thalmor, but shopkeepers need business. Still, I'll keep an eye on this project.

[griefmyst]

 

 

 

Trade & Barter mod already has trade prices racial adjustments, so this part is already implemented, at least. Also see the guard enforcers at the gates of Inconsequential NPCs, or even the characters of own "More Racism in Windhelm" mini-mod.

 

I actually think that the best way to add more racism to Skyrim is to add more quests dealing with it (I'd add them myself, but I can't script worth a damn). Still, your approach also has some merits.

 

You'll have to keep NPC/already done quests exceptions in mind, though. If you're already a Thane (and maybe some other conditions, like defeating Alduin) people should be less suspicious of you. Also, it doesn't really make sense for characters like Keerava and Talen-Jei to demonstrate Nord chauvinism, even though they're innkeepers in a pro-Stormcloak hold.

 

The Altmer thingy sounds a bit too much, especially considering the relatively cheerful demeanour of the Altmer population in Windhelm.

I'm going to add some more racist/racism revolving quests in my mod Immersive Quests (see my signature - also griefmyst I hope at some point you'll be able to voice one of the character's, Vulon mentioned it). Disrupted Service mentions it a lot, but I intend to have a few that actually revolve around it.

 

 

Sure thing, send me a message :smile:

 

Maybe not yet. It's for the next quest, which'll take a while yet since Vulon wants to write it up and I have to finish this one. But your VAing work is pretty great.

 

Back on topic: I completely agree with the fact that racism is barely touched upon and is very superficial in Skyrim, like many things. I think the High Elf one is a LITTLE harsh. Yes, they hate the Thalmor, but shopkeepers need business. Still, I'll keep an eye on this project.

 

 

True, it is harsh! However, it's not in all areas and this is the sort of thing faced by people perceived to be "enemies". Remember: it was less than 70 years ago our governments were putting Japanese citizens in to concentration camps during WW2. Jim Crow laws were in effect 50 years ago. And less than 10 years ago we had a very "nationalistic" reaction to Muslims and anyone who did not support the US during Iraq/Afghanistan (remember "freedom fries"?). These things did not happen "everywhere", but where it did happen it was harsh.

 

I think it's realistic for Nord Dominant cities (ie: Windhelm), where segregation is practiced already with Dunmer and limited Argonians to living outside the walls, to behave this way towards particularly those seen as "the enemy". Whereas things are far more relaxed/neutral towards Altmer in places like Solitude.

Edited September 25, 2014 by griefmyst

[Mattiewagg]

 

 

 

 

Trade & Barter mod already has trade prices racial adjustments, so this part is already implemented, at least. Also see the guard enforcers at the gates of Inconsequential NPCs, or even the characters of own "More Racism in Windhelm" mini-mod.

 

I actually think that the best way to add more racism to Skyrim is to add more quests dealing with it (I'd add them myself, but I can't script worth a damn). Still, your approach also has some merits.

 

You'll have to keep NPC/already done quests exceptions in mind, though. If you're already a Thane (and maybe some other conditions, like defeating Alduin) people should be less suspicious of you. Also, it doesn't really make sense for characters like Keerava and Talen-Jei to demonstrate Nord chauvinism, even though they're innkeepers in a pro-Stormcloak hold.

 

The Altmer thingy sounds a bit too much, especially considering the relatively cheerful demeanour of the Altmer population in Windhelm.

I'm going to add some more racist/racism revolving quests in my mod Immersive Quests (see my signature - also griefmyst I hope at some point you'll be able to voice one of the character's, Vulon mentioned it). Disrupted Service mentions it a lot, but I intend to have a few that actually revolve around it.

 

 

Sure thing, send me a message :smile:

 

Maybe not yet. It's for the next quest, which'll take a while yet since Vulon wants to write it up and I have to finish this one. But your VAing work is pretty great.

 

Back on topic: I completely agree with the fact that racism is barely touched upon and is very superficial in Skyrim, like many things. I think the High Elf one is a LITTLE harsh. Yes, they hate the Thalmor, but shopkeepers need business. Still, I'll keep an eye on this project.

 

 

True, it is harsh! However, it's not in all areas and this is the sort of thing faced by people perceived to be "enemies". Remember: it was less than 70 years ago our governments were putting Japanese citizens in to concentration camps during WW2. Jim Crow laws were in effect 50 years ago. And less than 10 years ago we had a very "nationalistic" reaction to Muslims and anyone who did not support the US during Iraq/Afghanistan (remember "freedom fries"?). These things did not happen "everywhere", but where it did happen it was harsh.

 

I think it's realistic for Nord Dominant cities (ie: Windhelm), where segregation is practiced already with Dunmer and limited Argonians to living outside the walls, to behave this way towards particularly those seen as "the enemy". Whereas things are far more relaxed/neutral towards Altmer in places like Solitude.

 

I think perhaps in Windhelm, yes, though maybe in cities that ARE Nord-dominant, but not the capitol of Nordiness, should be slightly less harsh. The capitols should have harsher penalties towards races.

 

And this could all probably be done through invisible perks/abilities added to the player depending on their race, maybe. Or maybe something else. Not entirely sure.