[WIP] Skyrim: Race Matters

[LoneWolfEburg]

Most in-game vendors in Skyrim are actually not Nords, though. Windhelm has 9 initial vendors, only 4 of whom are Nords.

 

Regardless, I think that eventually, all people should open the stores to the player (otherwise there could be obvious incompatibilities with both vanilla and modded stuff), though some races may have to work for it.

 

In general, except a lot of debate as to what level of racism is appropriate to what race, since the vagueness of the in-game treatment of the theme led to many people having their own interpretations.

Edited September 25, 2014 by LoneWolfEburg

[griefmyst]

Most in-game vendors in Skyrim are actually not Nords, though. Windhelm has 9 initial vendors, only 4 of whom are Nords.

 

Regardless, I think that eventually, all people should open the stores to the player (otherwise there could be obvious incompatibilities with both vanilla and modded stuff), though some races will have to work for it.

 

In general, except a lot of debate as to what level of racism is appropriate to what race, since the vagueness of the in-game treatment of the theme led to many people having their own interpretations, especially when it comes to the Stormcloaks.

 

Sure, but they are free to make their own mod, right? :wink:

 

 

Regardless, I think that eventually, all people should open the stores to the player (otherwise there could be obvious incompatibilities with both vanilla and modded stuff), though some races may have to work for it.

Absolutely, but that's the point I think I outlined with everything... you have more to prove to secure the trust of the people around you. It's going to be hard at first, but hey.

Edited September 25, 2014 by griefmyst

[mikegray]

Looks great!

 

As LoneWolfEburg mentioned, Trade & Barter does provide some of the economic aspects - though it doesn't go so far as to have shop- and/or innkeepers throw out Altmer, something I would love to see.

 

A couple of thoughts, though:

 

- As soon as CWO v.4 is out of alpha I plan to role play as an Altmer-Stormcloak wannabe. I think it ought to be possible to do that - though maybe more difficult. Ideally, there would be some considerable unfriendliness toward him, slowly leading to (grudging) admiration.

 

- I also notice that the Altmer-Stormcloak thing isn't all that simple - Ulfric, as it turns out, was a collaborator - and EVERYONE hates them, not just the Sons of Skyrim.

 

- Modding projects like this often seem to depend on voice files - but I actually think there should be good material for what you want to do! (OTOH, I doubt whether you'd find enough to really make a meal of my Altmer's journey into the heart of the Stormcloaks.)

Edited September 25, 2014 by mikegray

[LoneWolfEburg]

 

and EVERYONE hates them, not just the Sons of Skyrim.

The Imperial Legion has an Altmer legate, though. And of course, Altmer =/= Thalmor.

 

The Thalmor deceiving Ulfric into collaboration at one point doesn't mean that he has any sympathies towards the Thalmor. On the contrary.

Edited September 25, 2014 by LoneWolfEburg

[griefmyst]

Looks great!

 

As LoneWolfEburg mentioned, Trade & Barter does provide some of the economic aspects - though it doesn't go so far as to have shop- and/or innkeepers throw out Altmer, something I would love to see.

 

A couple of thoughts, though:

 

- As soon as CWO v.4 is out of alpha I plan to role play as an Altmer-Stormcloak wannabe. I think it ought to be possible to do that - though maybe more difficult. Ideally, there would be some considerable unfriendliness toward him, slowly leading to gradual admiration.

 

- I also notice that the Altmer-Stormcloak thing isn't all that simple - Ulfric, as it turns out, was a collaborator - and EVERYONE hates them, not just the Sons of Skyrim.

 

- Modding projects like this often seem to depend on voice files - but I actually think there should be good material for what you want to do! (OTOH, I doubt whether you'd find enough to really make a meal of my Altmer's journey into the heart of the Stormcloaks.)

 

I agree! :) There are some things that can't be done as a blanket. For example, Ambarys Rendar runs an inn in the Gray Quarter and hates Nords; an Altmer could be welcome there, despite it being in a Nord dominant city. However there's some unused conversations that could be easily re-appropriated for a conversation with the player.

 

Or, for example, some NPCs are overwhelmingly supportive/welcoming and don't care what you are. Ysolda, for example. :)

[Hyacathusarullistad]

This looks to be a fantastic idea. I'm actually on board with all the changes, myself, with no suggestions or quips about what you've got planned. If you're gonna do something like this, you may as well do it all the way, right?

 

Definitely keeping a keen eye on this one.

[TWarrior]

maybe do it npc- and not city-wide. each npc has a personality. try to match it with his actions and behaviour in your mod.

[griefmyst]

Thanks for the feedback, all!

 

To address some questions:

 

1. NPC demeanor, of course, will be a factor. I wouldn't expect someone like Ysolda who is sympathetic towards the Khajiit to turn around and suddenly begin to hate on Khajiit in the next sentence.

 

2. Each race will have varying degrees of difficulty, with some being easier than others. Naturally, in some regions the High Elves will have it harder than in other regions. Just because you are barred from an area, however, doesn't mean you can't find another way in. It just requires a bit of stealth and clever thinking. There will be assets available for you that would assist you in navigating these harder areas -- a cloak/hood that offers cover for a certain amount of time.

 

3. This is lore friendly. For those of you who cannot understand the reasoning behind some of this, please read up on the lore and talk to some of the NPCs. Argonians and Khajiit are universally thought of to be untrustworthy, thieves, etc with Argonians outright banned in Windhelm.

 

4. On top of drawing from lore, the actions also draw from how things were during similar points of our own history. For those who don't believe a Stormcloak member -- a member of a heavily nationalistic group -- would attack someone based on their race, please look up incidents of hate crimes in our history. It won't mean they would actively seek you out, it would operate more based on a % likelihood vs your visibility, lighting factor, and whether you're outside of the city and in range of other people or not.

 

5. Custom recorded dialogue is not on my radar. There are several unused conversations in the CK that can be appropriated and turned in to something interactive. I'd like to focus on the actual balance itself before getting in to more advanced customization.

[RuubixObsidian]

This is a great mod concept.

 

Some of my thoughts:

 

1. You need to add some challenges to being a Nord. For instance, Khajit merchants won't deal with you. Non-nord merchants will likely charge you more for their wares. Kharjo refuses to be your follower, etc. Perhaps you get attacked more often by non-nord refuges in the wild.

 

2. Non-nords or non-high altmer should find allies or the opposite challenges mentioned in "1". Perhaps if a thief among your race, that owners of shops and caravans will help "hide" you for safe sleeping or travel.

 

3. Provide side quest to overcome racism. My experience in the real world is everyone can make exceptions for individuals while keeping their group views. Any race should be bolstered by becoming the dragonborn--or perhaps more hated because you aren't a nord?.

 

Could provide some simple ways to add depth and complexity to the relationships.

[griefmyst]

Ruubix, you raise some good points! I'll see if I can integrate your first point in to it, actually.