284 replies to this topic

[mtrredux]

In response to post #20234104. #20235344, #20246724, #20258434, #20263429, #20272774, #20284419, #20285564, #20315519 are all replies on the same post.

@Laezar...clearly you analogy failed...you are getting a spell randomly...NOT a perk.
In your analogy you clearly used random perks in a different tree as though it made your point.

Clearly we have different philosophical views about immersive gameplay.
You seem to think that complete control over PC destiny does not break immersion...I just disagree.
Destruction is clearly being treated as an elemental school by PerMa.
So formulas for an ice spell are going to follow the same fundamentals as formulas for a fire spell.
The interactions of elemental forces follow the same laws...in a learning setting you would not be able to pick and chose which fundamentals you prefer, to specialize you would have to learn all the applicable fundamentals, then begin your mastery of the branch that suits you.
It should be obvious that the author intends that destruction be regarded as a overall field of study, and that you can not specialize in that field until you learn those fundamentals...hence the reason that focus perks do not show early in the tree.

So it is not an issue of immersion, we can clearly see...it is an issue of anal retentiveness.
Sure you might be obsessive compulsive and only want a certain type of spell in your pc inventory...but a solution for that already exists...savescum until you get that desired effect.

Or...If you think each element of destruction should have it's own fundamental force laws that govern the branch of that school...you should create your own mod.

[Laezar]

In response to post #20234104. #20235344, #20246724, #20258434, #20263429, #20272774, #20284419, #20285564, #20315519, #20316389 are all replies on the same post.

"Laezar...clearly you analogy failed...you are getting a spell randomly...NOT a perk.
In your analogy you clearly used random perks in a different tree as though it made your point."

You didn't read what I wrote, thank you. You can read it again until you understand that spells are gamplay elements not ammunitions.


"Clearly we have different philosophical views about immersive gameplay.
You seem to think that complete control over PC destiny does not break immersion...I just disagree."

Nah I think that the game already give us complete control over every binary random elements (by binary I mean, when you can instantly know if what happened is what you want or not). But the way to apply this control is not immersive.

" Destruction is clearly being treated as an elemental school by PerMa.
So formulas for an ice spell are going to follow the same fundamentals as formulas for a fire spell.
The interactions of elemental forces follow the same laws...in a learning setting you would not be able to pick and chose which fundamentals you prefer, to specialize you would have to learn all the applicable fundamentals, then begin your mastery of the branch that suits you.
It should be obvious that the author intends that destruction be regarded as a overall field of study, and that you can not specialize in that field until you learn those fundamentals...hence the reason that focus perks do not show early in the tree."

Blablabla you didn't read what I wrote again. I'm almost ok for roleplay reason about the random in early branches of the tree. Though for gameplay reason it's absolutely awfull. But even roleplaying, when your mage go up to the expert perks he is already mostly specialized (perma is designed to force you to specialize...), and if you get your fire spell when you did build an ice + thunder mage it's like getting a crossbow bolt when you are putting perks in shortbow (since you like ammunition so much).

"So it is not an issue of immersion, we can clearly see...it is an issue of anal retentiveness."

ok... let's just ignore that.

"Sure you might be obsessive compulsive and only want a certain type of spell in your pc inventory...but a solution for that already exists...savescum until you get that desired effect."

Yeah, and sure you might like to receive useless spells not working because of the lack of perks but if you do you can still pick a spell at random if you want too.

"Or...If you think each element of destruction should have it's own fundamental force laws that govern the branch of that school...you should create your own mod."

Or maybe this is an ideas section and we can all give our ideas. You seems so sure about being so right but a lot of people think like me too and you might also consider that your point isn't 100% valid instead of instantly attacking me on my anal retentiveness or the fact I should create my own mod. T3nd0 mod aim to correct bethesda game designs problems, I don't see why I couldn't discuss what I think is a design problem in his mod. All you told is that you found a roleplay justification for it, but I can find a roleplay justification for everything so what's important is game design and gameplay in this case and that was my main point. Having to save scum is bad design. Giving something useless for a long term investment is bad design. They are both things perma should aim to avoid and actually try to.

Now either you tell me how we can make it random and still be good design, either you tell me how randomness is so awesome when it's so binary or either you keep insulting me and find roleplay excuses and I won't answer because we are not discussing, T3end0 will probably see the post anyway and think for himself about the problem.

Edited by Laezar, 24 November 2014 - 09:27 AM.

[SprkLs]

Firstly, I am a huge fan of the Perkus Maximus and Skyre mods you've made. Unfortunately I have noticed some issues to report: the weapons.



1. Perma seems to be interacting with Immersive Weapons in an unintended way. Skyrim differentiates between similar weapons in each mod, causing multiple versions of the same weapons in the game with different weight and value prperties. E.g. the shortspears, clubs, and others. This may not be an issue you can fix, but maybe you can have a patch that prioritizes the Immersive Weapons versions, even though I would prefer yours.



2. As an avid swordsman and martial artist, I noticed a few rather irksome errors.



a. In the weapons sub-classing system you categorized different weapons as blunt, piercing or bladed. While mostly correct, there are problems with your differentiation of bladed vs piercing. Firstly the katana, nodachi and wakazashi (some of my personal favorites) are all slashing (bladed) weapons that are almost never used for piercing. In fact, most of these would break if you tried to stab an armored target.



b. The katar, short sword, longsword, bastard sword, and arming sword are not bladed weapons. Well, at least not in the context you have them in. The katar is purely a piercing weapon, Indian in origin and first used by what may have been the world's first martial artists. Secondly, the short sword, longsword, bastard sword, and arming sword are slashing/stabbing (bladed/piercing) weapons. In fact, most warriors only ever stabbed with these weapons. The slashing part you can blame modern action movies for.



c.The sabre is known as one of the world's fastest weapons in its size class. In the Olympics the only thing recorded faster than a moving sabre is a bullet -- only with fencing sabres, of course. So, other than the speed, that weapon is golden in your mod.



So, to summarize. This is your mod and I'm not demanding any changes, but I implore you to review what I've been ranting about so far. I greatly appreciate everything you've done so far with Perma and look forward to further updates.

[Smael]

In response to post #20245829. #20246774, #20263499, #20273964, #20315159 are all replies on the same post.

You might be right, but if you use it like that, it would be not usefull to flee from combat. I currently use it in lvl 1 (2secs duration)to flee from combat and in lvl 2 (5secs duration) to prepare ambush

[iEatPandas]

Heya. Been having a lot of fun with PerMa. I'm currently running an Orc Blackguard build heavily invested in Conjuration, and I really like the necromancy system. A couple issues with the skeletons are putting a damper on the experience though, and I'm hoping by bringing it to attention it'll get a look before an update rolls out.

1. Skeletons aren't aggressive enough. Sometimes they're content to sit around until something hits them instead of hunting anything in eyesight like other summons. Strange behavior for something that I assume is meant to be used as cheap, replaceable fodder. I'd like to see their AI modified to take the initiative, or at least me more responsive to threats.

2. Skeletons seem especially vulnerable to infighting. This may actually a general issue with summons (nine times out of ten, spiders spawned from Curse of Infestation decide to attack nearby allies), but it has been most problematic since I started messing with necromancy. Skeletons accidentally struck by either myself or another summon seems to almost immediately cause it to turn. It would be silly to suggest that all summons stop fighting back if struck repeatedly, but given the nature of skeletal constructs, it would seem reasonable if they were desensitized to friendly fire. This would cut down on at least some of the infighting nonsense.

3. Conjuration is a bit too difficult to level. This isn't a direct problem with skeletons per se, but as a consequence of having long-lasting or permanent summons (such as skeletons), Conjuration spells don't need to be cast very often. And even if you recast your summons and bound weapons before each battle, the per-cast exp is too low to make good progress. In my current playthrough, I've been focusing on Conjuration and never doing battle without recasting my weapon and summons beforehand (recasting during battle if possible even), and still my secondary combat skills (light weaponry, block, heavy armor) easily managed to outgrow the thing I actually wanted to level. Heck, a good third of my Conjuration skill levels ended up being bought from trainers. I would HIGHLY recommend increasing the exp contribution from all Conjuration spell casts to compensate for how infrequently they need to be refreshed.

I might give my thoughts on a few more things in the future once I dig in to more of the perk trees, but that's all for now. Thanks for releasing this ambitious overhaul, and I can't wait to see it grow and improve.

Edited by iEatPandas, 25 November 2014 - 05:53 AM.

[mtrredux]

In response to post #20326694.

oops

Edited by mtrredux, 25 November 2014 - 05:58 AM.

[mtrredux]

In response to post #20234104. #20235344, #20246724, #20258434, #20263429, #20272774, #20284419, #20285564, #20315519, #20316389, #20317014 are all replies on the same post.

@Laezar
I read what you wrote...I just disagree
A fire spell for a mage in skyrim is no more a gameplay element than arrows for an archer.
Your idea in this case is that you think the mod author should abandon tes lore and make each branch of the destruction school a different fundamental game element.
What I was pointing out is the author clearly decided to embrace the lore and treat destruction as a single school, and that this is made obvious by the way focus perks do not come until later in the tree.
Specialization in a single element is not possible in the tes universe lore, without first learning the fundamentals of the destruction school.
So..immersion AND lore in this universe is preserved by this mod.
What you are asking is for way to be anal retentive about a pc build that is non-lore friendly...and without disrupting in gameplay.
Sorry...I just don't sympathize with this desire.
And from the looks of it, the mod author is unlikely to either.
Also...playing a strict cryromancer is related directly to role play and role play only...so I am totally missing your point there???

Edited by mtrredux, 25 November 2014 - 06:10 AM.

[rldbs753]

knuckle's sound is blade sound that is so strange
maybe blunt sound is more proper

[rldbs753]

In response to post #20234104. #20235344, #20246724, #20258434, #20263429, #20272774, #20284419, #20285564, #20315519, #20316389, #20317014, #20339704 are all replies on the same post.

nice idea

[Laezar]

In response to post #20234104. #20235344, #20246724, #20258434, #20263429, #20272774, #20284419, #20285564, #20315519, #20316389, #20317014, #20339704, #20340374 are all replies on the same post.

You still didn't read. You talk about lore I talk about gameplay. For gameplay purpose this is a big fail.

But as I said a master necromancer wouldn't start popping random daedras so suddenly. He could if he studied books but I'm pretty sure those perks are here to illustrate your progress in magic in fields you know. And in skyrim, even though being stronger in ice magic will help you for fire magic, you can really fast be way better in ice magic than fire.

So the lore isn't fully oposed to the choice of spell, it's just that you are trying to justify it just as I'm trying to justify my point with lore, but the lore of TES would be ok with both. (even though perma clearly push the specialization beyond what the lore would be ok with).

BUT in term of gameplay it sucks. and you are still not giving me any gameplay argument and still insult me.