14 replies to this topic

[09jlardinois]

I used to love SFO, Dat Grass, Unique Ground Covers, Unbelievable Grass, etc etc. But the more I thought about their looks as both an artist and a resident of Wisconsin, I realized they all really, really sucked. I live in a northern Temperate climate that is basically an exact clone of Skyrim's climate (minus the mountains). And while many of these mods LOOK great, from a beauty standpoint, they all unfortunately also look fake, unrealistic, and overly dramatic for that same reason. I think Dat Grass is the first foliage mod that made me start thinking this. But then when looking at various ground cover and tree mods, I realized many of these mod makers probably live in the city, or at least in climates like the deep south or south west (California). Most of these mod makers probably have not lived 23 years and 9 months in a climate exactly like Skyrim's - they simply don't know - and there's nothing wrong with that. it's just disappointing. 

 

The things that these types of mods all inevitably get wrong about ground cover and foliage is

1. the types of ground cover plants in forests. In forests, grass doesn't cover the ground. Even in fields, there are more dandelions and thistles than actual grass. And those purple thistles in skyrim? yeah those only grow near water.... the normal kind are little star shaped leaves with big fuzzy ears. The whole thing is no bigger than a drink coaster, and only 1/2 inch high, and has no purple bud or flower of any kind. But the fuzz hurts like holy hell when stepped on - itches more really. And again, clovers are huge. So are ferns, poison ivy, burn weed, and saplings. In forests there are logs all over the ground and broken sticks and twigs everywhere. There are more dead leaves in empty spots on the ground than filled in with plants, and the plants that are actually there are very rarely grass. Forest floors just don't get enough sunlight to support grass as pictured in these mods. In fact, there is actually very little grass out there in the temperate climate world, at ALL, because the constant re-freezing and thawing of the permafrost layer wreaks havoc on any normal types of grass. Only the ugly invasive ones survive. But while we're on the topic of grass...

 

1.2 -- grass isn't green. Sorry, not even close. It's like a blue teal when in a perfectly curated suburban lawn - but in the wild? It's brown, grey, a garbage green, its a chute mostly (that's straw, folks), its got little fluffy things on the end, and it isn't majorly tall or lawn-mower short. Dat Grass is too short and SFO is way too tall. The grass is all different heights - it does not grow in tufts either, and it will be patchy with pools of mud water in the middle. It grows on the side of hills - even steep cliffs - because in this type of environment, cliffs are typically just dirt dropoffs, no actual stone like in Skyrim. While we're on the subject - stone in this environment is usually quartz or granite, so mostly grey with brown and white freckles. Rocks in nature are not brown, guys. Geez. But going back to grass, real grass in a temperate climate is butt ugly and sporadic and random as hell and looks more like a cornfield than the SFO or Dat Grass versions. And once the grass dies when the ground freezes over, it all gets laid down and flattened. 

 

 

2. pine forests in particular --- even the developers completely failed to model the trees correctly. Usually branches start further up the tree, above eye level, and usually they are very dense with little sunlight at the forest floor, and the forest floor is almost entire orange. Just pine needles f***ing everywhere. Also - lots and lots of ants and ant hills. Finally, pine forests are not made up of christmas trees - pine trees look nothing like that. Yes, those are a type of pine tree, but those are the kind you would see as a decoration in the front yard of a suburban home - not a pine forest. 

 

3. Finally - the animals. These aren't grass mods, but where are the animals? If you think everything from North Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, and all the way up to northern Canada consists of moose, wolves, and rabbits, then you're in for a real surprise when you go camping there. Skyrim needs

 

skunks

eagles

grizzly bears

polar bears

moose vs caribou vs elk (yes, these are different, guys)

owls

moths

trout

hawks

bobcats / lynx / cougars

bison (buffalo)

coyotes

raven

black boar (wild pig)

ferrets weasles and minks

otters

beaver

raccoon

porcupine

50 fricken kinds of squirrels and chipmunks

prarie dogs (think falkreath)

gopher

hare (large rabbit)

badger and wolverine

muskrat

oppossum

vole (tiny mouse) and mice in general (including shrews)

moles - ugly little buggers

bats. f***in tons of em.

lots and lots of whales. i'm serious. Canada. Whales. It happens.

seals / sealions

bighorn sheep (rams)

 

Attached Files

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[Terra Nova]

By all means, start your own grass project if you're that unhappy with what's available.

[McclaudEagle]

I should probably point out that what Skyrim also lacks is a game engine powerful enough to render a landscape and forests as you've described. Skyrim, quite simple, dies if you try to create a really dense, realistic looking forest. This is why it's far better to make the forest floor mostly grass, because you'd just end up with lots of light forests with lots of open mud/pine ground cover, which would look really weird. Unfortunately, it's extremely difficult to make a decent, realistic looking landscape in the Creation Engine as it's not really powerful enough for it.

[DurtyNelly]

Skyrim is based on Scandinavian countries like Norway, Denmark and Iceland not North America. Just look at Skyrim's architecture, it's very obvious Bethesda was influenced by Viking culture. Also, I'm pretty sure Vurt is Swedish and SFO is based on his home countries' landscape.

 

I'm kinda confused as to why you think Skyrim should look like Wisconsin.      

 

I just wanted to add that there's nothing wrong with wanting it to look like Wisconsin, or North Dakota, or wherever. My copy of Skyrim looks more like something out of a child's nightmare thanks to darker fantasy mods. But saying all landscape and grass modders have it wrong because it doesn't look like your back yard is a bit rich. As Terra Nova said, if you want it to look like that, start your own mod and do it.   

Edited by DurtyNelly, 29 November 2014 - 02:26 AM.

[qwertyzeldar]

Nords are Vikings...

[nivea]

Gonna have to agree that Skyrim is in no way modeled after America, your looking in the wrong part of the world try instead heading to some of the Scandinavian countries I think then it would hold more salt if you lived there instead. IF your looking for realism, which I assume you are.

 

A large part of the lack of animals/creatures can more then likely be blamed on Skyrim needing to be packed up and put on a console, they put in the bare basics and called it a day. Thankfully there are mods that add more animals already out, Animallica, Farm animals, Birds of Skyrim, SkyBirds.

[Terra Nova]

I should probably point out that what Skyrim also lacks is a game engine powerful enough to render a landscape and forests as you've described. Skyrim, quite simple, dies if you try to create a really dense, realistic looking forest.

Yeah I was thinking this as well. Regardless of what Todd has told us, this engine is just a spiffier version of what was used to make Fallout 3, aka, it's OLD.

[McclaudEagle]

 

I should probably point out that what Skyrim also lacks is a game engine powerful enough to render a landscape and forests as you've described. Skyrim, quite simple, dies if you try to create a really dense, realistic looking forest.

Yeah I was thinking this as well. Regardless of what Todd has told us, this engine is just a spiffier version of what was used to make Fallout 3, aka, it's OLD.

 

 

That's correct, the Creation Engine that powers Skyrim is just an upgraded and rebadged version of the ancient and run-down Gamebryo Engine, which is why things are so familiar.

[Matthiaswagg]

 

 

I should probably point out that what Skyrim also lacks is a game engine powerful enough to render a landscape and forests as you've described. Skyrim, quite simple, dies if you try to create a really dense, realistic looking forest.

Yeah I was thinking this as well. Regardless of what Todd has told us, this engine is just a spiffier version of what was used to make Fallout 3, aka, it's OLD.

 

 

That's correct, the Creation Engine that powers Skyrim is just an upgraded and rebadged version of the ancient and run-down Gamebryo Engine, which is why things are so familiar.

 

I like the familiar part, but god... Why can't we have a better engine?

[McclaudEagle]

 

 

 

I should probably point out that what Skyrim also lacks is a game engine powerful enough to render a landscape and forests as you've described. Skyrim, quite simple, dies if you try to create a really dense, realistic looking forest.

Yeah I was thinking this as well. Regardless of what Todd has told us, this engine is just a spiffier version of what was used to make Fallout 3, aka, it's OLD.

 

 

That's correct, the Creation Engine that powers Skyrim is just an upgraded and rebadged version of the ancient and run-down Gamebryo Engine, which is why things are so familiar.

 

I like the familiar part, but god... Why can't we have a better engine?

 

 

Because Bethesda love being behind every other leading developer by half a decade or more.