34 replies to this topic

[Vagrant0]

Yes, I miss the variety of attacks shown in Morrowind. We've gone from being able to hack, slash, and stab to just swinging around the weapon stupidly. You can't slash with a dagger, it's made for thrusting. Hell, blunt and thrusting weapons are really the only way to injure anyone wearing plate, but of course they weren't paying much attention to reality.

[cryocry]

]No assassin would use a dagger in the classic overarm stabbing motion you see in the movies. The shoulderblades, ribcage and skull are too thick for an attack coming from above to cause fatal damage instantly. Daggers tend to be used to thrust up through the stomach area.

The back of the throat would be a good place, just thrust it in at and angle. And speaking of assassination, sneaking with daggers and hand to hand are entirely unrealistic. Sneaking in hand to hand should permit you to snap someone's neck or back. And daggers would also be fatal to stab in the side of one's throat. Or stick it up is mouth and through the back. Or, even better, through someone's eye and possibly into their brain. The animation for daggers in sneak mode is entirely unrealistic as well. It should go out, as if to stab someone, like you can when the earn the front power attack for the fighting skills (blade, blunt, hand to hand).

[cactoblasta]

Well, it looks a lot cooler, and it IS a fantasy game...I would like it. To be honest, I expected it in the game...

You're right - I shouldn't have considered reality. There is another argument against it though. An overhand dagger would require a unique set of animations. Considering how few people choose daggers over other, more powerful equipment it wouldn't make much sense to animate it.

Maybe it could be a mod project if Bethesda ever decides to allow animation modding.

[jkdalex]

A counter-argument to the guy talking about navy seals -

I wanted to have the dagger to stab while in SNEAK mode. So obviously i won't be in front of the guy so I can't thrust it up into his ribs etc. I completely agree that in frontal confrontation the dagger should be held normally. But if you're approaching someone from behind, would not stabbing be better? In that case, it SHOULD be held upside down but ONLY in sneak mode.

[batesmotel34]

no, a dagger has no real advantage over a longsword, other than it being lighter and taking less fatigue to swing. Indeed, a longsword is much better for sneak attacks since the longsword's inherent damage advantage over the dagger is magnified even further by a sneak attack bonus.

Given that a longsword tends to weigh about four times as much as a dagger in Oblivion while the difference in damage is usually about 20-25%, my stealth or magic oriented characters often choose to carry a dagger in preference so they can use the extra encumbrance for carrying extra arrows or extra potions/posions. My melee oriented characters usually carry a two handed weapon for the advantage that the extra reach can give in keeping an opponentn too far away to hit them, plus a single handed weapon that does reasonable damage without adding too much weight for use with a shield. That may be a longsword or mace, or a short sword, axe or dagger depending on how much else I'm carying and what particular weapons, especially enchanted ones, that my character has found. My current thief/assassin character just traded in her glass shortsword for an ebony dagger since the dagger does the same damage and weighs half as much, and works just as well for sneak attacks.

[CJD]

No assassin would use a dagger in the classic overarm stabbing motion you see in the movies. The shoulderblades, ribcage and skull are too thick for an attack coming from above to cause fatal damage instantly. Daggers tend to be used to thrust up through the stomach area.

every assassin should use the overarm stabbing motion bcause: there is a gland on the back of the neck directly above the collar bone, that, when punctured stops all motion in the brain, thus killing the victim


also the back of the neck gives ez access to the spinal cord, an expert of human anatomy should be able to pinpoint and sevre a nerve. thus paralyzing the victim.


Case closed

[Vagrant0]

every assassin should use the overarm stabbing motion bcause: there is a gland on the back of the neck directly above the collar bone, that, when punctured stops all motion in the brain, thus killing the victim


also the back of the neck gives ez access to the spinal cord, an expert of human anatomy should be able to pinpoint and sevre a nerve. thus paralyzing the victim.


Case closed

That may be so, but you'd still have to be damn good at it in order to hit it each and every time. If you don't, you just end up hitting bone or grazing. If they're standing there, not breathing, staring straight forward, slightly below eye level, and totally oblivious to their sorrounds, ok, you have a chance. But if their head is turned to the side, slightly up, slightly down, and they show the usual signs of life, getting that percecise of a hit would be nearly impossible. In reality, people tend to notice things slightly better, and tend to move in a manner which cannot be calculated with absolute certainty.

Why bother stabbing them when you can just reach around their neck, and slit their throat, with your other hand covering their mouth? Hell, even trying to knock them out with a sharp blow using the butt of the dagger to the back of the head, then snapping their neck would be more effective than trying to wedge a blade right between their vertabre.

Daggers in this case aren't for silent kills, that's what an arrow to the temple is for. Daggers are for thrusting into the body, usually durring a non-stealth situation when you are using one hand to restrain the victim. Or as designed as a quick and sudden attack to cripple or seriously wound an individual, such as the bump and stab technique.

[Marxist ßastard]

every assassin should use the overarm stabbing motion bcause: there is a gland on the back of the neck directly above the collar bone, that, when punctured stops all motion in the brain

If the target's brain is moving, I think your job is already done.

[cryocry]

every assassin should use the overarm stabbing motion bcause: there is a gland on the back of the neck directly above the collar bone, that, when punctured stops all motion in the brain

If the target's brain is moving, I think your job is already done.

I think he means all brain activity, as in breathing, moving, etc.

[DeathmatchTheTitan]

Daggers are great for a Mage who has to get in a mele situation.
Off topic:
It would be great to use the side of an axe to smack some one.I also miss Halbreds.