Who knows TTIP?

[MotoSxorpio]

 

Most of TTIP is still secret. The one article I have seen by someone who claims he has actually read it says he cannot disclose what it actually says or he will lose his job and may go to jail. That is how much they don't want you to know about it.

 

Secret treaties should be illegal in a democracy.

 

Here is one article from the UK side: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

 

> The fact that people are unable bring information to the public is nothing new as their is always secrecy in politics, what concerns me most is the specifics of this situation. The fact that it is in regards to a treaty, which affects both the US and Europe if our governments are dense enough to sign it....by the time we hear about it it will have been to late to let our representives know our thoughts and too late to prepare for the worst.

 

With all of that said, and while I'm dubious about the intentions behind TTIP, have you seen how he public reacts to certain news? In the US the average civilian was/is convinved that martial law was just around the corner becasue of the Jade-Helm exercise. Anybody who is/was a member of the military or in a military family could have told you they do training exercies all the time.

 

> I agree, despite not being directly in the ratification process, I don't want to be caught unawares about something that has the potenial to affect my life and liberty. If they want to discuss a treaty fine, but it better be conducted thru the offical (read public) channels.

 

Yes, the fact that it boils down to a treaty of nations binding them all to the one ring: $$$ (respective monetary symbols notwithstanding)

[modder3434]

 

 

Most of TTIP is still secret. The one article I have seen by someone who claims he has actually read it says he cannot disclose what it actually says or he will lose his job and may go to jail. That is how much they don't want you to know about it.

 

Secret treaties should be illegal in a democracy.

 

Here is one article from the UK side: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

 

> The fact that people are unable bring information to the public is nothing new as their is always secrecy in politics, what concerns me most is the specifics of this situation. The fact that it is in regards to a treaty, which affects both the US and Europe if our governments are dense enough to sign it....by the time we hear about it it will have been to late to let our representives know our thoughts and too late to prepare for the worst.

 

With all of that said, and while I'm dubious about the intentions behind TTIP, have you seen how he public reacts to certain news? In the US the average civilian was/is convinved that martial law was just around the corner becasue of the Jade-Helm exercise. Anybody who is/was a member of the military or in a military family could have told you they do training exercies all the time.

 

> I agree, despite not being directly in the ratification process, I don't want to be caught unawares about something that has the potenial to affect my life and liberty. If they want to discuss a treaty fine, but it better be conducted thru the offical (read public) channels.

 

Yes, the fact that it boils down to a treaty of nations binding them all to the one ring: $$$ (respective monetary symbols notwithstanding)

 

 

> That's true that it always come down to money, and binding them. However even if it passes (that's a big if) I doubt it would hold together. You could argue NAFTA and the EU work because it just solidifies an area of the world that is already close knit. However a global treaty of nations, in a one world government (or one world cooperation in this case) wouldn't hold together....too different.

 

> However in my mind it makes since to make free trade agreements with other countries. I'm concerned about TTIP because its more then just a trade agreement and its binding nations together across distances that have only been considered moot in recent years due to modern transportation.

 

> In my mind the NAFTA deal in '94 made sense because its just made it easier to trade (I'm not saying it was 100% positive, it did have negative effects too). When I study history, the formation of the European Union made sense (granted its gotten bigger and some argue more corrupt since its inception) in the relation of the close proximity of these nations making trade easier and cutting the red tape seemed like a logical step.

 

****Side Note****

If I went off on a tangent somebody pull me back

[Aurielius]

Jesus you say a Russel Brand is biased about TTIP, but you come along with the trade minister of the UK, one of the persons that is on board with the ttip-negotiations and Wall street journal?? Really?

 

http://www.br.de/mediathek/video/sendungen/report-muenchen/ttip-lori-wallach-100.hI have no forme

I have no informed opinion pro or con, for that one would need analysis of the facts which I believe no one here actually has. Which brings me back to at least being able to read something from some reputable economists who have seen or been given the hard facts on the particulars of the proposed agreement. Though for the record, I dislike back room deals that are brought for ratification without due diligence being able to be exercised by the electorate.

[JimboUK]

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/06/09/exclusive-eu-chiefs-attempt-to-stop-ttip-debate-crack-in-corporatist-stitch-up-proclaims-farage/

 

Fun times in the EU, the stitch up is coming unstitched.

[ImJustAGamer]

This thing is a massive waste of time since the trade between the EU and the US is already very free. It's only getting pushed because some corporates whine that they can't sell their stuff of questionable quality here because there are basic standarts and safety checks wich their products constantly fail (for good reason I might add). It has literally no purpose other than weakening logical regulations in order to swamp a new market with crap.

 

And technically I wouldn't have that much of an issue with companies selling things like egenetically engineered meat and other stuff here but the TTIP would also make it impossible to label it as such because then the company would sue the government of the respective state for that. I think it's important that the consumer can decide for themselves what to buy and if the want to eat mutant beef or regular beef and without labeling they won't be able to do so.

 

Also, the less the US and their randian economics have influence where I life the better.

[Harbringe]

What makes these types of trade deals so offensive is the giving of sovereign or sovereign like powers to corporate entities . Like in the above mentioned GMO example . So say Texans have a referendum where in a law is proposed (then passed) in which it is determined that it is the right of Texans to be able to know exactly what it is they are eating and it has to be stated on the packaging . The corporation then turns around and appeals it not to the Courts of Texas but to a corporately chosen trade body that adjudicates what the rights of Texans are in that particular matter and its designed in such a way that Texans have no avenue of law by which they may defend their choice and law passed in their own legislature.

 

If I were the Europeans I wouldn't sign the TTIP with the Americans , you have to remember these are the people who think corporations are people (Citizens United) and nothing good can come from such stupidity.

[JimboUK]

What makes these types of trade deals so offensive is the giving of sovereign or sovereign like powers to corporate entities . Like in the above mentioned GMO example . So say Texans have a referendum where in a law is proposed (then passed) in which it is determined that it is the right of Texans to be able to know exactly what it is they are eating and it has to be stated on the packaging . The corporation then turns around and appeals it not to the Courts of Texas but to a corporately chosen trade body that adjudicates what the rights of Texans are in that particular matter and its designed in such a way that Texans have no avenue of law by which they may defend their choice and law passed in their own legislature.

 

If I were the Europeans I wouldn't sign the TTIP with the Americans , you have to remember these are the people who think corporations are people (Citizens United) and nothing good can come from such stupidity.

 

It's offensive when governments give away any power without a referendum, politicians aren't given power, they're lent it, it's not theirs to give away.

[HeyYou]

Allowing corporations to sue the government for policies that reduce/compromise their profits is just flat out stupid. And that is putting it VERY politiely. ANY regulation is going to affect profits. Shall we repeal all regulation, and just let corporations do what they want? Anyone else remember Bohpal?

[MotoSxorpio]

Allowing corporations to sue the government for policies that reduce/compromise their profits is just flat out stupid. And that is putting it VERY politiely. ANY regulation is going to affect profits. Shall we repeal all regulation, and just let corporations do what they want? Anyone else remember Bohpal?

THIS^^

 

I can't even articulate the stupidity.

[HeyYou]

 

Allowing corporations to sue the government for policies that reduce/compromise their profits is just flat out stupid. And that is putting it VERY politiely. ANY regulation is going to affect profits. Shall we repeal all regulation, and just let corporations do what they want? Anyone else remember Bohpal?

THIS^^

 

I can't even articulate the stupidity.

 

Nothing less than what I have come to expect from our government. They are a bowl full of stupid, covered in ignorance.