1013 replies to this topic

[gda002]

This is a really fun immersion mod that keeps getting more and more interesting. Thanks for all the hard work!

[Sumeldar]

Found what may be two bugs and also just some observations

First, when just testing out 1.7.1 I jumped in and out of a quick save and autosave (near a bed), going from 20 hours up to 48 hours. In testing I changed from having six canteens to fourteen! Mind you, even before testing, when I was just out playing, reloading now and then I have gone up from only paying for THREE.

The second thing that was odd I can't be sure was Primary needs. I was shutting down the very first Oblivion Gate. My character (intentionally, just to see the effects) was starving, dehydrated and exhausted. Anytime during or after I left the gate at some point my character would collapse (as expected) but in the two times tested the quest was never checked as done. But when removing the stone with full stats the quest was accepted without flaw.

Now, I have a lot of mods running, could have just been oblivion being silly! BUT! If anyone else has similar problems this may be handy to take note of.

When testing out sleep, noticed that sleep time scaled with how long it took to be exhausted. 20 or 24 hours I could rest for 8 hours or so and be fine. But set at 48 hours it took around about 20 hours of sleep to be fully rested. Not sure if that was intentional, but it sure was a long time to wait!

I think food is great the way it is!

At dehydration set to 48 hours it took around 29 (I think) sips from canteens heal up mana to max. To reduce clicking and to set difficulty you may want to do what you did for food and allow the player to set up how much liquids effect them.

One other things that may just make canteens smoother in play would be putting a 1 or some mark at the start of the name to keep them all in the same place when looking at the menu. I noticed you named two of them "Almost full canteen" and "Almost empty canteen" (something like that), keeping those at the top of the list (made me chuckle). But the "Full canteen" when clicked or when I wanted it would be in some other spot.

Hope it all helps! Thanks for the mod Maskar

[Maskar]

Thanks for the feedback. I released a new version (1.7.2) improving the fatigue recovery for anyone using a high exhaustion timer. In older versions 1 hour of sleeping recovers 2 hours fatigue. This means that you should sleep 8 hours to recover 16 hours (which totals 1 full day). This doesn't work well when setting the exhaustion time to 48 hours as that would take 24 hours of sleeping to fully recover. The new version is a lot smarter resulting in recovery being much more efficient if the player character sleeps for longer, without being awake in between. This means that it's much more effective to sleep once for 6 hours than 6 times for 1 hour. It also means that you only need to sleep for 13 hours to recover 48 hours of exhaustion.

I rechecked the code creating canteens and there's nothing I can see which could create additional canteens as you described. As I don't have this issue I would appreciate some further feedback concerning this.

I doubt this mod was responsible for your quest issue as it doesn't actually modify any quests and especially considering it worked the second time. Could you please recheck this?

Concerning drinking, the setting for the usefulness of food is also used for drinking. If you would like to drink less to counter dehydration I suggest changing this value from 5 to a higher amount (in ini file this is the BPN.ini_foodweight_hour value). Although the amount of food/drink required is working well with default settings, it could indeed become a lot of drinking if you have to recover 48 hours in 1 go. In the next version I'll add a better system for anyone who uses very high stat loss timers, making it a little more natural.

Although I myself am quite happy with the names used for canteens, I'm open to suggestions to improve this. Currently the canteens are called: ''Full Canteen of Water'', ''Almost Full Canteen'', ''Almost Empty Canteen'' and ''Empty Canteen''. They should have normal names and be different to identify them though.

Finally, a canteen recovers the same amount of thirst as a normal in-game bottle and it takes 4 bottles/canteens to fully hydrate yourself (from being fully dehydrated) when using default settings. This should be pretty much the same as in real life. However, feedback on this would be appreciated.

Edited by Maskar, 17 March 2011 - 11:39 AM.

[Maskar]

OBSE 20 beta 6 is out now. Please upgrade to this version before reporting any issues.

The next update will add a hunger/thirst recovery multiplier. This means that starving player characters will recover a lot more stat loss than when being only slightly hungry. Additionally I plan on simplifying the OMOD installation method and divide the ini file configuration in general and advanced settings to simplify the use of this mod overall.

Most importantly however, please let me know if you encounter any issues whatsoever, with as much details concerning the issue as possible. Thanks!

Edited by Maskar, 19 March 2011 - 11:11 AM.

[Maskar]

Thanks for your feedback and endorsement. The reason why the canteens are set to 250 gold (vendors like to adjust the prices) is to balance it with normal drinks, as canteens can be refilled for free. However, I'll lower their value (from 250 to 65 gold) in the next update. That should make them more affordable, without making normal drinks completely useless.

I'm guessing you didn't realise you can drink 3 times from canteens before they're empty. Canteens recover 5 hours of stat loss and you therefore require 4 to fully replentish yourself from being fully dehydrated (using default settings).

This mod makes not eating, drinking or sleeping a real challange by modifying the primary stats of a character. The idea is that the character becomes weaker when starving, can concentrate less when thirsty (lower magicka) and become more quickly fatigued when tired. The special effects are also linked to this. However, you could modify the maximum stat loss from 80% to a lower amount. I'll look into a method of adding additional changes to secondary stats like strength into a future update. This way you can pick how your character is affected by hunger, thirst and sleep.

Concerning using OBSE 20 beta 6, this mod requires OBSE 20 beta 4 or higher to function properly. However, beta 6 fixes a number of compatibility issues and is highly recommended when using this mod.

Edited by Maskar, 20 March 2011 - 12:04 PM.

[Maskar]

A new version (1. is now available for download and should include all requested features.

One of the new features is attribute loss (Strength, Intelligence, etc.) when getting hungry, thirsty or sleepy. Because of this, the default maximum loss was changed from 80% stat loss to 75% stat loss and 25% attribute loss. These percentages can be adjusted to personal preferences through OMOD installation and/or by editing the ini file.

Eating and drinking is now more effective when the player character is more hungry/thirsty. This should make it easier for player characters to recover from hunger/thirst when using very high stat loss timers. Also, stat and attribute loss is more realistic, by changing hardly at all for the first few hours, but increasing strongly over time. And finally, it changes the default canteen prices (from 250 gold to 65 gold), but can be changed further in the ini file.

This mod is considered fully functional and complete. However, any suggestions on further improving it are of course welcome. Thanks.

Edited by Maskar, 25 March 2011 - 08:12 PM.

[shiftlock]

I think this mod has great potential especially after now having a setting for attributes to be affected. Better priced canteens are a welcome addition however I have the following suggestions:

Make it so that we can easily refill our canteens when we are at inns. Perhaps making it possible so that we can go up to barrels that currently are don't do anything and be able to press space on them and fill up the canteens like if we were at a well. Makes things more convenient and immersive.

Regarding the penalties for being hungry/thirsty/sleepy, I think it would be a lot better if you emulated the Fallout: New Vegas behavior. Penalties come in stages. So for example between 0 - 19% thrist there is no penalty but beterrn 20% and 39% you lose -1 Endurance. And just like New Vegas, each Basic Need would affect different attributes.

http://fallout.wikia...i/Hardcore_mode

I just don't think its as realistic and immersive to have a such a linear relationship between the Need bars and my stats/attributes. Seeing -1 on all my attributes for slight hunger/thirst/sleep isn't good IMO. I should have a small window of time where if I properly maintain my character's needs that I should be rewarded with full 100% stats and attributes.

And also, just like New Vegas, having different default maximum stat loss times for each need would be better. After all, you can survive longer without food than you can without water.

One last thing just out of curiosity, what was in OBSE v20 that wans't in v19? The current beta (beta 6) of OBSE breaks Drop Lit Torches-OBSE.



Thanks for the mod!

[Maskar]

Thanks for your feedback. Filling canteens at barrels shouldn't be an issue. To maintain compatibility and add a little immersion I'll add the ability to fill canteens with alcohol stored in the ''huge'' barrels found in towns.

Concerning penalties being linear, this was changed in the latest version (1.. By default it's now a lot more like you suggested. The first few hours you no longer lose anything, but increases gradually (a little like stages). You can still configure the mod to choose linear penalties though, for whoever prefers that option.

You already have seperate timers for hunger, thirst and sleep (was added in version 1.6).

Concerning the OBSE 20 requirement, this is necessary because of the event handlers used to check for eating and drinking. They were added in beta 2 and 4.

Edited by Maskar, 26 March 2011 - 08:16 AM.

[shiftlock]

I think I might've found a bug with the attribution penalties: When I first installed the mod on a clean save I had no attribute penalties as per normal and I let myself get hungry/thirsty/sleepy and then ate food, drank and slept until my stats were almost completly satisfied but I still had -1 penalty to Strength, Intelligence, Willpower and Endurance (Other stats were fine). This was with default maximum of 25% attribute loss setting.

[Maskar]

I't's most likely your player character was still hungry, thirsty and/or sleepy enough to have a slight attribute loss. You might want to use HUD Status Bars to easier see what you're still short on.