396 replies to this topic

[sp0tty]

i'm loving this! could you provide some more info on the sneak attack multiplier changes though? I don't really like x5 at 30 sneak myself, expecially since I have a global x2 damage mod

[saebel]

@ spOtty

Check the ini. There is an option to choose a custom track to the sneak attack multipliers where you can set your own values to whatever you like.

It's towards the top in the BASIC SETTINGS GROUP, third option down. Set vAttackOpt to 4, and then set all your custom values in the options below it.

[Cherisu]

Ah, been waiting for this update for several days. Seems like this mod doesn´t receive the attention it deserves: To achieve the same extent of in-game effects, so far there´d have been necessary: "PT-Sneak Penalties", "More Realistic Sneaking", "Stealth Overhaul Redux", and "CLS SneakyFeet" (less with a few trade-offs). "Proximity-based sneak penalties" would add LOS-penalties, but (AFAIK) applied to the player, so that existing LOS of just one detector would make the char more visible to EVERYBODY around, which is´nt realistic (albeit it was a good step forward to a fleshed-out stealth-overhaul). This seems to be the very breakthrough withi this mod here. And in case this is working as intended, it would not only be finally an "all-in-one"-solution (saving quite some .esp-slots in the loading list), but quite an overall advancement, and then definitely to be considered THE stealth-mod and a high score in every serious "must-have"-list.
Anyway, thanks for sharing your work - seems to be very interesting, and I think this is really an important little mod-project! I will test this out and happily endorse it once it has proven itself.

[whalecakes]

Haven't messed around with it much yet, but in future versions, please don't assign biped slots to tokens. NPCs can and will equip them instead of enchanted rings and the like :/

One issue so far: if I have it set to disable autorun(which I never use anyways), it will sometimes toggle it on while I am sneaking around. The problem stops when I turn this feature off in the ini file.

[saebel]

@ Whalecakes
I set up my tokens as non-playable rings, and was able to equip other rings on both hands, so there shouldn't be any problems.

I've fixed the auto-move toggle problem, it will be available in the next release.

[whalecakes]

It's not me that's equipping the tokens, it's NPCs, in particular companions will often choose to equip them instead of enchanted jewelry. I have no idea why they seem to pick tokens over it but I've had to go through all my mods and make sure none of the tokens have biped slots as the only things companions and NPCs were equipping were deadly reflex tokens and the like.

Anyways, after playing around with it for a while, I find that I can sneak in front of people in bright light as long as I'm a certain distance away, about 10-15 feet. It feels significantly easier to sneak around than it did in vanilla; maybe it was the sound detection that was making it hard? I dunno, but I managed to clean out the Donton's house with Viranus pretty much watching me from the living room.

[saebel]

@hyperinsomnia
Thanks for the endorsement!

@whalecakes
Ok, I dug a little deeper and made the tokens take up the "side weapon" slot which isn't used for anything else in the game, and it seemed to work. So the next release will have that.

In general, I'm pretty sure it is not easier to sneak around than the vanilla version, especially if you are wearing the heavier armors. Certain combinations of tactics *would* make it easier (maxed out Sneak skill, + chameleon, + wearing only clothing), which is how it should be. You trade off protection for not being heard.

If you could provide me with the ini settings you used, as well as your character's sneak level and gear your character was wearing, I could try to replicate what you did and get a sense of why you felt it was so easy.

By the way, if Viranus was "watching" you, as in where ever you went he would look at you, that means you were detected. The fact that he didn't do anything about it has nothing to do with my mod, that's an AI thing.

[whalecakes]

My ini settings are all default hardcore, except for the automove, which is disabled.
I was wearing light armor with a sneak skill of 73 and it was quite bright. It's not that he didn't do anything; the sneaking icon was not lit up unless I was very close to him.

I dunno, maybe Viranus just isn't very bright?

Edited by whalecakes, 03 April 2011 - 07:26 PM.

[saebel]

Hmm,

As far as I can tell, it may have been the lighting. I recreated a similar scenario. I snuck in and used the debugger to track what happened.

Although proximity is always a factor, the sneak icon only lit up when I went into the brighter lit areas. When I lit a torch, he noticed me instantly, regardless of where I was.

Because he is non-hostile, as long as the sneak icon is not lit up, that means you can steal whatever you want. If the sneak icon is lit up, all that means is that he notices you. When I stole an item with the sneak icon lit, he came over and said "put that back".

Although your screenshot implies there is lots of light, in my tests, I was only getting a light level of 17, which is fairly dark (8 is typical for sewers). When I was close to him and moved, that got his attention and he would follow me, but the moment I stopped moving, the detection level dropped below 0, and he lost interest. This actually works the same in Vanilla Oblivion. Just because someone notices you, doesn't mean they will keep tracking you.

In this case the combination of a Sneak skill of 73, the light armor, and the lighting put you in a fairly nice position where as long as you stuck to the shadows, you really could steal things in his line of sight. So all in all, I think it's actually working the way it is supposed to.

One way to look at it is that yes he sees someone (you), and he sees that you are doing something, but the lighting and your skill prevent him from seeing exactly what you are doing. I've posted some images so you can see what is going on.

However, this test does bring up something that has always bothered me. If someone *does* notice you while sneaking, I would think that their suspicions would be aroused. ("Why is this person here, and sneaking around?") And as long as you continue to sneak in their line of sight, I think they should get a bonus to track you. The only way for them to lose that bonus is to stop sneaking and/or get out of their line of sight. I'm going to do some experimenting and see if I can't get that to happen.

Edited by saebel, 03 April 2011 - 09:42 PM.

[whalecakes]

The only shadow in my screenshot is the one my character is casting... Yours are a lot darker, maybe it's ignoring the lighting from All Natural or something? Weird, will have to test in more places.
Just tried without the mod and he is better at detecting me, but just barely. Tried it with the base sneak value set to 0 instead of -25 and it added maybe 2-3 feet to his detection range. I have it set up so dungeons and nights are darker so maybe I just need to up the light penalty?

Edited by whalecakes, 03 April 2011 - 09:49 PM.