Paradox of tolerance

[MotoSxorpio]

The very notion that tolerance is something you can impress on others is flawed. Even the premise of tolerance is arguably flawed. Tolerance is not acceptance, it is simply being indifferent enough that you ignore it. It is the behavior of acknowledging that an inequality exists but doing nothing to resolve that inequality. Meanwhile "intolerant" people get attacked for even bringing it up, or reminding others of that inequality because the ideas are usually uncomfortable and nobody wants to even touch the subject. You don't have to learn or empathize to be tolerant, you don't have to consider anyone else's situation other than your own, you just have to pretend that everything is okay and will sort itself out on its own.

 

Instead of being intolerant of intolerance, we should instead be intolerant of ignorance and bigotry.

No. That takes away a freedom at least on one side. Being able to say what you want without recourse feeds the right to freedom of speech. We all like to think we have that.( and in the end, thought )

 

Tolerance is an individual decision. It is a mix of environmental and parental and sociological injections of key opinions. In the end, the individual chooses what is "right" for him or her. It could be the first five years of life or the last 50 that a final decision on the individual part is made regarding a tolerance decision.

 

You can't blame a single way of thinking as the worst way of thinking through tolerance. Tis a thing each individual should be able to hold.

 

Its a spot on a graph. Like a radio wave, light waves...a wave on a graph.

 

Tolerance is an individual experience. It is not a reaction, it is calculated and abstract.

[Beriallord]

 

Not really? First, in most cases nobody, or just one person, cares or even knows that a transgender person is using the facilities with them. So this is often 1 vs. 0 or 1 vs. 1.

But let's say it's 1 vs. 2, or even 1 vs. 10 -- so what? Different rights have different weights. The one person ought to be able to change, or use the bathroom, without being harassed or beaten. That right outweighs others' being uncomfortable. Remember, not too long ago those same people would've been discomforted by a black person being there, or a disabled person, or a lesbian or gay person.

As a society, we've decided this before: bigots' comfort means nothing.

Also consider the flip side: if you force trans women to use men's facilities, you're also forcing trans men to use women's. Consider how ridiculous this would be:

http://i.imgur.com/OMdkxAG.jpg

 

 

This is not an issue your side is going to win on. And even if they do, what's going to happen is that society will further divide itself by choice. More parents are going to start sending their kids to private schools or homeschool their children. But the main issue I have with your side, is you don't leave people alone who wish to isolate themselves from society, and you attempt to chase them down like dogs and impose your values on their lifestyles. You're only gonna be able to push so far before people start pushing back, and all you're doing is creating fuel for the extreme right wing to make their message appeal to more everyday people instead of clowns and social rejects. When things get pushed to the extreme, nothing good ever comes of it.

[sunshinenbrick]

 

Not really? First, in most cases nobody, or just one person, cares or even knows that a transgender person is using the facilities with them. So this is often 1 vs. 0 or 1 vs. 1.

 

But let's say it's 1 vs. 2, or even 1 vs. 10 -- so what? Different rights have different weights. The one person ought to be able to change, or use the bathroom, without being harassed or beaten. That right outweighs others' being uncomfortable. Remember, not too long ago those same people would've been discomforted by a black person being there, or a disabled person, or a lesbian or gay person.

 

As a society, we've decided this before: bigots' comfort means nothing.

 

Also consider the flip side: if you force trans women to use men's facilities, you're also forcing trans men to use women's. Consider how ridiculous this would be:

 

http://i.imgur.com/OMdkxAG.jpg

This is not an issue your side is going to win on. And even if they do, what's going to happen is that society will further divide itself by choice. More parents are going to start sending their kids to private schools or homeschool their children. But the main issue I have with your side, is you don't leave people alone who wish to isolate themselves from society, and you attempt to chase them down like dogs and impose your values on their lifestyles. You're only gonna be able to push so far before people start pushing back, and all you're doing is creating fuel for the extreme right wing to make their message appeal to more everyday people instead of clowns and social rejects. When things get pushed to the extreme, nothing good ever comes of it.

 

 

I think I see your point but do feel it perhaps a little out of kilter because not everyone who disagrees with such things necessarily wants to live in isolation. When people are discriminated, criminalised, beaten or even killed because of their lifestyle, this can be considered quite imposing too...

 

Your sentiment to the difficulty of stopping divisions appearing is unfortunately quite true, even if such mindsets are in the end rather dumb and short sighted. People will argue over anything if put in a particular environment or taught to behave in a certain way.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w7FjW3QeiQ

[Eckss]

The very idea of segregated toilets is nuts:
Children often need assistance and often are accompanied by an adult of a different gender.
This creates a problem - which toilet do such a pair use?

Segregated changing rooms are just as nuts - Does the man take the little girl into a changing room full of naked men, or does he go with her into the changing room full of naked women?

Prudes offend me. I want to silence them but instead I tolerate their presence in my vicinity and their influence on the society that surrounds me. I suppress my intolerant urges because, although such people offend me, I don't want the illusion of civilisation under which we live to break down because of me. If it were to break down sufficiently due to other causes, however, I would no longer feel the need to curb my anger in public and such people who annoy me would get more than a dark stare.

Now, replace the anti-prude sentiment in the previous paragraph with ANY other Intolerance and you'll find some people somewhere who feel that way.

The Paradox of Tolerance is that human beings are Intolerant creatures that practice Tolerance so that we can live in close proximity to each other without killing each other for increasingly trivial reasons. We have to be as tolerant as we can because the consequence of not doing so is unpalatable to the majority of us. Even a giant killing machine who lives in an unassailable fortress full of weapons has other people that he cares about, who would be unhappy in a world of no Tolerance, because such a world has no supermarkets, no television, no computer games. All the best things in life come from having a civilised society and civilisation is an illusion that can only exist in an atmosphere of tolerance. Without it, civilisation withers and dies - that's why we all put on our best fake smile and suppress our inner Hulk, no matter how much we want to Smash!

As for the PC-Brigade, Twitter-Nazis and other modern lynch mobs, they're a temporary phenomenon and will wither and die once they bite off more than they can chew - it's inevitable, like an anaconda choking on a cow.

[LuzioMan]

Tolerance for girls is path to love imo. First you are friendly, then you get in love and then you are in a trap.
Should we stay tolerant towards Turkey now? I think, no. It's a family misfortune actually. At least for our family Turkey is definitely a taboo after my sis got into huge trouble there. She's just back from Istanbul where she met some nice guy, a policeman she fell in love with so much. It was such a striking love story and they were set to get married.... And then it turned out to be that the guy was an Isis agent! Thanks Lord, it became known before the engagement... though it was very hard for Lucia, my sis.
Neither me, nor my sis could ever think of Isis agents among the Turkish policemen.... Though now it's no wonder actually, for the head of the Turkish state himself has been cooperating with Isis. This is how ironically tolerance, love and politics can be mixed.

[grassHAT]

Modern renderings of tolerance have become so ill-guided that it is almost hysterical... What is tolerance? Tolerance is a persons capacity to understand someone else, but refuse their beliefs. That is tolerance. Ignorance is not tolerance. A previous poster said that tolerance is the capacity to ignore someone else. Not at all. How tolerant would someone be who refuses to understand another person and then disagrees with their beliefs?

[dpgillam]

This idea of transgender is interesting, in light of a very recent case.

A 15 year old boy declared he was a girl. Technically, he claimed he was a lesbian trapped in a man's body. I wont go into how ancient that joke is.

 

Anyway, he was demanding his "right" to use female facilities, including the locker rooms and showers. The female students of the school all unanimously opposed. Lefties got involved, it went to court, and its now in appeals, because liberals and democrats feel there is no reason why a 15 year old boy who thinks he is a girl shouldnt be allowed to shower with 13-18 year old girls.

[dpgillam]

Or the fun case of 2 college professors fored to quit at Yale.

Some thin-skinned student whined about the "sexy" whatevers and how "racist" it was. The professors posted on social media to get a grip; you cant control other people, and there are far more important things to get "offended" over than "sexy indian" costumes. So the students pushed the faculty until she and her husband were fired. For the great crime of telling themto grow up.

 

The largest problem with "tolerance" is most the hypocritical filth demanding it define it as 100% lockstep with their beliefs and opinions.

[sunshinenbrick]

In order to be tolerant or intolerant it helps to know a little about what you are actually making a judgement on.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKK8N5I6-5Y