122 replies to this topic

[Rabbit 51]

Thank you once again for the reply, Antistar. I kinda have it figured out by now. It seems to link somehow to "Darloken's Waterfront House" which I have been redecorating to my own tastes. It was for this house that I intended to install the bathtub. The two mods are somehow linked and will run fine together or neither, but not one or the other, if you take my meaning. Your alternate .esp eliminating the need for baths (I can't keep my girls out of the water anyway) keeps me from being penalized by not using the soap. This is something that I can live with until I can find the link between the two. I would still at some point like to install one of your tubs in the manor so maybe it will all work out in the end. Thank you for taking the time to help me out and I apologize for being such a bother.


In friendship,
The Rabbit

[EleiMiShill]

Is it possible to create more "Soap bars" or even "Soap jars" in custom module and make them work with the bathtubs?

(I think something with "item.HasScript SoapSCR" could do the trick.

[JCSpencer]

In advance I apologize for my incorporation of caps, but I do so only to stress certain words. Plus, the overwhelming ignorance displayed by Dragonmg just ticked me off. I'm so sick of people rating a mod badly and giving the reason that "it's not realistic" when we're talking about a FANTASY game. It's not real, it's make believe. It's pretend. How can you say something isn't realistic while fully accepting the presence of animated undead, magic, and vampires?

I like the mod, but there are a few things I am not understanding here.

#1 in mid-evil times people were lucky to bathe once a month, but most bathed once a year.

First of all, it's MEDIEVAL. Secondly, this is a fantasy video game, not a historical simulator. Thirdly, you are just plain wrong (see below).

#4 Vampires do not sweat, so why would a vampire need a bath?

Says who? I've never seen that in The Elder Scrolls game lore; I've never encountered that in any other game I've played either. And do I need to mention the fact that vampires don't really exist? Your argument has a fluctuating basis for comparison. You say the mod is flawed by comparing it to real historical lore in point #1, then you go on to say it's flawed by comparing it with fantasy lore in point #4. Which is it? If it's real historical accuracy we're concerned about, any discussion of vampires is moot and actually undermines your own argument. If it's fantasy we're concerned about, then historical accuracy is moot and again undermines your entire argument.

In real mid-evil [MEDIEVAL, damn it!] times castles were cold and made bathing rather unpleasant [wrong], so even the rich did not bathe often. [wrong] The rich not bathing is where the perfumes and calognes [COLOGNES] comes in [wrong], but even back then the poor could afford some of the low class ones. In truth the poor probably bathed more ofthen [OFTEN] that [THAN] the rich[wrong].

Guess what? You are completely wrong, wrong, and wrong! Maybe you should do some fact-checking before you bash somebody's mod and make yourself look like an idiot in the process, not to mention perpetuating the ignorance of history. In "medieval times" (correctly, the Middle Ages), most towns had bathhouses; in fact, cleanliness and hygiene was VERY HIGHLY REGARDED, so much so that bathing was incorporated into various ceremonies such as those surrounding knighthood. Some people bathed DAILY, others less regularly – but most people bathed. Furthermore, they used HOT WATER; they just had to heat it up themselves, unlike us with our modern plumbed hot water (the bathhouses were often warmed). And they did NOT use perfumes to disguise bad odors. That's a myth that came about because of the myth about not bathing. Furthermore, for those that didn't have a bathhouse, and for thousands of years before bathhouses and aqueducts, people bathed in streams, lakes and other bodies of water. And as evidence of bathing habits, soap has been around for at least 5,000 years!

Anothet [ANOTHER] thing to consider is the fact that there was no running water like there is today, so a bath would have taken an hour to prepair [PREPARE], maybe 15-45 mins to take, and perhaps some other added time factors. Not only that the whole family would take baths the same night, using the same bath water, more than likely starting from the cleanest working toward the dirtiest.

This discussion is partly wrong, partly speculation, and almost entirely pointless. Your opening statement is only partly true. If you are talking about the modern incarnation of plumbing, then yes, that didn't come about until the 19th century. However, from the context of your post, I think you are talking about plumbing in general, in which case you are very wrong. Plumbing similar to what we have now has been around for nearly 3,000 years. The Roman aqueducts weren't just for show. Do a search on the history of plumbing if you want to get your facts straight.

In regard to your other comments: Everything in the game is sped up, and some "realism" was sacrificed in favor of playability and fun (as has been the case throughout the history of video games). In Oblivion, we don't need to eat, drink, sleep (other than to level up), or a variety of other things because too much realism can bog the game down and make it boring. When you do eat, such as by munching on ingredients, you apparently swallow it whole and can gorge on hundreds of them without exploding or barfing. How realistic is that? It wouldn't be very fun if it took a full minute to eat every ingredient and you had to stop when you were full, would it? Well, maybe it would be to some people, but that's why there are so many "realism" mods out there.

You said it took 15-45 minutes to bathe back then. Maybe, but what's your point? That's how long it takes most people these days, too. But again, it wouldn't be very enjoyable to waste 15-45 minutes of real time watching your character sit in a bathtub. You said it took an hour to prepare a bath - so what? That's also partly wrong because the public bathhouses were available 24/7 and were usually heated because the upper class people often had to use the same water. There was also often a schedule of when certain classes were allowed access so that the upper class weren't forced to bathe with peasants. Even for the wealthy that had their own private tubs, how long it took to prepare a bath is purely speculation and still pointless. Regardless of history, it's another time-related argument that is pointless because you wouldn't want to spend an hour of the game preparing a tub for your character, and another 15-45 minutes watching them bathe. Your final statement about water cleanliness is true in essence; of course the water is going to get dirtier as it's used. But what's your point?

So soap has been around for 5,000 years, indoor plumbing for 3,000 years, and the popularized concept of the "medieval times" is the period from around 800-1,500 years ago. That pokes a lot of holes in your claims that "medieval" people didn't care about or have the means to address their hygiene. And aside from the tubs, the mod allows you to bathe in bodies of water, which is precisely how people have bathed throughout all of history if and when they didn't have access to bathhouses or indoor plumbing (and many people still do bathe in this manner). So instead of whining about tubs, don't use them - you can just bathe in a stream, and that's pretty darn realistic.

...the modern standards added to the bathing mod just weren't possable without running water. There is also the lack of consideration for vampire characters.

You attack the historical accuracy of bathing while stating vampires don't need to bathe... WTF? LOL! Please, Dragonmg, read your own words again. Can you not see how ridiculous your argument is?

...this mod gave my char a permanent 39 personality, which it should be over 75, and I even bathed before I removed the mod.

This is the only valid complaint against the mod in your entire post, and is the only basis you should have used to rate it. Even then, according to the mod's creator, your problem was most likely caused by user error or an incompatibility issue. Your rating should've been based solely on whether the mod did what it said it would do, whether it was compatible with other mods, and the quality of the mod. I think your rating should be removed because it's based on bogus "facts" that have no bearing on the mod itself or the game, but rather personal ignorance concerning the history of bathing. Based on this, your post should have been a "I have a problem and need help" post, not a rating post. Whether or not you think the mod is "realistic" should have no bearing on the rating of its quality.

To The Creator: Thank you very much for creating and sharing this mod. I enjoy it, as do many others I'm sure. I liked your inclusion of bodies of water as an alternative. The only suggestion I would make is that the bars of soap are consumed when using them, requiring you to buy more. Well, another suggestion I might make is for some quick bathing animations (a la Sims), but I imagine that would be pretty hard to implement.

[Peteman990]

LOL at person below, write a book already!

Mod looks great!

[hoshi23]

kudos for a very well executed mod! this should have been part of the original game. you dont know just how smooth
my skin is now everyday thanks to you.

[Anach]

Thanks for the update. It's been a while since I played and so I'm going through all my mods and getting updates.

Would be good to see some merged esp files though. Right now I have 5 files plus 1 addon, totaling 6 mod files just for this one mod. A couple combo merges could cut that down to 1 esp and 1 esm. That can mean all the difference when the game engine is limited to 254 total.

Further improvement could then be done via OBMM script to save confusion with all fairly complex install options.

Keep up the good work.

[qwazzt]

Looks very cool, but I can't seem to find any merchants that will sell them. Does anyone know a specific person that does? Thanks!

[antistar]

Thanks everyone.

Anach: The Bathing Mod was my first released mod for Oblivion. I'm sure that now I could cut down on the number of optional esps through the use of in-game options menus and the like, but I certainly didn't know how to do that back then. It's something I'd be very likely to do if I updated the mod again, but there's no plans for that at the moment.

qwazzt: First, make sure you've installed the required esp/s. Then, a (or the) general merchant in each town will carry Bathing Mod items. For example, if you're in the Imperial City then - from memory - at least one of the 'Three Brothers' carries them.

[maxyall]

will this wash up the bloody mess?

I will download and give endorse if it does

[antistar]

maxyall: If you're talking about the 'Bloody Mess' mod by Ronyn, then yes, it will. Please see the Installation Instructions section of the readme.