762 replies to this topic

[Death689God]

In response to post #7427022. #7804057, #7809808 are all replies on the same post.

The size of a lot of those nations seems mind blowing considering the lack of proper infrastructure. Before the bombs fell there was a war for resources, if I recall correctly, so that means the word would have been pillaged of its resources to a damaging degree before the world turned to crap. I don't see how a lot of the larger nations could realistically keep their holdings considering the resource problem they've inherited. The way I see it, there'd be a large reliance on prewar tech (which would be far from top condition and require close watch and a lot of maintenance) in order to just support such vast tracts of land and acquisition of new resources would be problematic to say the least. Look how bloated the NCR was, and how fragile the Legion was (basically being propped up by Caesar), and look how small they are in comparison to a lot of those nations. Now the TSC is in a unique position, due to its Xenotech assets and global reach. I could see the TSC gaining a large holding in time. But as for the other groups not so much. IDK maybe I'm just being picky, but the resource issue just stands out a lot to me.

Edited by Death689God, 13 April 2013 - 08:16 PM.

[pryingeyes1980]

In response to post #7748796.

You can get a copy from harkin or if youve lost them talk to him in a savr before you lost it if you have drop then type gbo in the console onced clicked on it this will give you the codes to use in yur current save game.

[panzersharkcat]

In response to post #7427022. #7804057, #7809808, #7812440 are all replies on the same post.

The primary resources fought over were petroleum and uranium. Had the bombs not fallen, the power-generation technology behind T-51b power armor could have saved the world. Empires that size have been built on and thrived with pre-industrial tech bases. Case in point, the Achaemenid Empire. Or heck, medieval England. In the Late Middle Ages, the average person had an income equivalent to about $1000 a year, which is better off than many of the poorest countries in the world today. Source. In any case, not all of them are exactly wealthy like Novus Imperium Romanum. In Britain and Ireland, it's basically 1984. The Scandinavian Empire is fairly young. It's mostly tribes and whatnot still.

Edited by panzersharkcat, 14 April 2013 - 01:08 AM.

[GeneraloftheArmy]

In response to post #7427022. #7804057, #7809808, #7812440, #7818329 are all replies on the same post.

Cyrus's empire has already been noted as an impressive feat of political engineering. Machiavelli identified it, in The Prince, as the model centralized imperial state; freaking hard to conquer, but easy to hold onto afterwards.

[Death689God]

In response to post #7427022. #7804057, #7809808, #7812440, #7818329, #7821752 are all replies on the same post.

I thought I remembered talk of starvation and whatnot as well. Surely shortages of those resources could cause deep reaching problems, but mass starvation... Meh, maybe I'm recalling wrong. Anyways, It's true that before there were vast empires of that nature, but when you think about it those are far different circumstances. For starters they didn't have tech hundreds, maybe thousands of years ahead of their circumstances to maintain and incorporate into their vast empires, another thing would be the irradiated mutated environment. But as for the tech behind the T-51b's, would that knowledge be readily available to those outside of the US? Again, maybe I'm recalling incorrectly, but didn't the US basically say "F you guys, we're not trading any resources with you, starve and die!"... For some reason I doubt Eurasia and Africa got the blueprints. XD

PS: And this is more of a side note, but... Shouldn't it be "The new Democratic People's Republic of Korea"? If the situation in Korea was similar to how it is now, the Poor Pro-Communism North vs the Wealthy Pro-Democracy South, I get the feeling the starving, technologically/socially backwards North would have the clear advantage in surviving post apocalypse... Jus' sayin', lol.

[panzersharkcat]

In response to post #7427022. #7804057, #7809808, #7812440, #7818329, #7821752, #7825897 are all replies on the same post.

Emphasis on "could." I fail to see why having technology more advanced than that of the ancients would hinder things. If anything, it should help. Agriculturally, brahmin dung can be used as fertilizer. Animal dung can also be used as fuel. As I've written things, which is non-canon, horses managed to survive in parts of the Eurasian continent. Africa would also largely be spared from bombing. Radiation would also disperse after a while. As for "starving, technologically/socially backwards North" having the advantage, let's just say malnourished soldiers don't fight very well. I haven't decided too much into it but I might have the North fall before the bombs came down or just have the better rebuilt South, which could better afford Vault-type things, conquer the chaotic north.

[Death689God]

In response to post #7427022. #7804057, #7809808, #7812440, #7818329, #7821752, #7825897, #7827221 are all replies on the same post.

To see how it could be a hindrance take a look at the Dark Ages. The powers that rose from Rome's ashes didn't have the proper resources to maintain the infrastructure, now I know there was plenty of development in the dark ages, but none of the powers that rose where the Western Roman Empire fell ever managed to reach the level of the Romans until far down the line. Now jump to Fallout 3, where you have descendants of apocalyptic survivors inheriting tech and infrastructure so far beyond their capabilities to maintain that it makes the fall of Rome look like childsplay. As for the Irradiated Mutated Environment, it's less the radiation itself and more of the byproducts of said radiation. Look at New Vegas, it was spared the bombings and whatnot, but they still had a major Cazador and Deathclaw problem. Now I agree that Africa would be at an advantage in many ways post apocalypse, but they wouldn't be completely safe. I'm sure the radiation, even if it's long dispersed, had some effects on the local wildlife. Deathclaws came about from irradiated Geckos, if I recall correctly, just imagine Irradiated Lions/Hippos/Hyenas/Elephants/etc/etc/etc. Africa would be hell in its own way, but I could admit seeing more then a few major factions there. But Asia, Europe, and the Mid East, not so much. "let's just say malnourished soldiers don't fight very well." True enough, but after the world goes to crap South Korea would find themselves in a similar state of affairs(if not worse since NK is like that because of the US/etc blocking food shipments and the like in, for good reason mind you, it's not going to the people either way, but still) and they would not be as accustomed to dealing with it. As for the united South vs Chaotic north, IDK that might fly if you make sure there are no foreign bases in Korea... But that, to me would imply the world gave up and left the South to rot in the shadow of China Alone. I think Foreign Bases in Korea would keep the South, or if you decide to unite them into one Pre-Great War nation just plain Korea, would have a LOT of issues to work out. Unless you also decide to make them a revolutionary east-Asian melting pot and help ease the tensions that would be between American/European Military Remnants and the local population and Local military. Then again I guess most of the bases would have been in Seoul and wiped out by the bombs if Korea was targeted by China (why they would hit a nation so close to home so hard IDK, crazicommies I guess. XD) PS: As for the Brahmin Dung thing. That's kind of like today's Corn for Fuel issue. Do we use these resources for food (use the dung for agriculture), or for fuel (use the dung as an energy source). How do you distribute it properly? Not to mention even the NCR had raider problems in its own boarders, what happens when raiders hit your supply lines and steal all your fuel? IDK for me it's all so hellish, which is what I love about it, and also why I love the TSC. It's special circumstances make it a viable future power house.

Edited by Death689God, 15 April 2013 - 01:33 AM.

[panzersharkcat]

In response to post #7427022. #7804057, #7809808, #7812440, #7818329, #7821752, #7825897, #7827221, #7827376 are all replies on the same post.

The Dark Ages were not very dark. Life continued on much as before even after Rome fell for the far majority of the people. Really, the rise of Islam is the real break between antiquity and the medieval era. There was also the Carolingian Renaissance. Sure, it was a downgrade, but not as big as people thing. As for mutated wildlife, I've noted that in the NIR dossier. Rattels and the Nile Crocodile are the African equivalent of deathclaws. In the Middle East, giant solifuges roam. North Korea is starved as it is because of their idiotic policy of Juche: complete self-reliance, which works as well as you'd imagine for a resource-poor area. Post apocalyptic China is divided into warlords, which eventually merge into three powers in stalemate. Manchuria is American-influenced and is heavily Confucian. Hubei is social democrat and mostly Taoist. Xinjiang is Maoist and heavily Legalist. As for animal dung fuel, market prices and whatnot. The food shortage thing was primarily overpopulation, which is kind of "fixed" by almost everybody being dead. They all have issues with raiders, which is why much of the map is blank. Some just have less problems than others. They all have around ancient-to-medieval living standards, more or less, give or take quite a bit with plenty of schizo tech, with advanced technology and ridiculously backward stuff standing side by side. Probably the worst place is Air Strip One, especially if you've read 1984. Populations are pretty small, too. For example, Novus Imperium Romanum has maybe 3.6 million people and its capital and largest city, Constantinople, has about 150,000 people. Constantinople is in the running for largest city in the world in my Fallout head canon.

[GeneraloftheArmy]

In response to post #7427022. #7804057, #7809808, #7812440, #7818329, #7821752, #7825897, #7827221, #7827376, #7827542 are all replies on the same post.

As a superpower, yes. But remember, even though most of the developed world got hit in the war, that doesn't mean that the whole thing got wiped out. Places not normally inhabited by large numbers of people would likely be outside the primary blast zones, and have lower incidences of radiation-induced mutation and environmental damage. Add even 100 years post-apocalypse, and survival outside of the nations hardest hit would be much easier, and allow for the necessary division of labor to begin rebuilding. With 200 years to play around in, most nations with natural or man-made shelters from nuclear disaster would have already started back on the path to civilization and gone far enough down that road to make the establishment of new nation-states a distinct possibility.

[panzersharkcat]

In response to post #7427022. #7804057, #7809808, #7812440, #7818329, #7821752, #7825897, #7827221, #7827376, #7827542, #7827570 are all replies on the same post.

Exactly. Novus Imperium Romanum was founded in 2144 by the city-states of Greece, about 67 years after the bombs fell, and their territory was primarily most of Greece for a while. Most of their territory was conquered and integrated within the 81-year-reign of the Holy and Right-Believing Andronicus VI, the Ghoul Emperor and canonized saint of the post-nuclear Eastern Orthodox Church. Italy itself took fifteen years to conquer. Italy and its surrounding area, such as Austria, Switzerland, and southern France, maintained order by the efforts of the Roman Catholic Church. (Lest I be accused of religious bias or whatever, I'm an atheist who considers religion to be a whole bunch of superstitious nonsense. I just don't let it get in the way of writing accurately about the beliefs of my characters.)