The Great Imperial vs. Stormcloak Debate

[Xengeance]

Hello, all!

 

While I am certain this topic has already been beaten to death like a horse pinata, I'd like to open up discussion regarding the Dovakiin's potential affiliation with Caesar's Leg- I mean.... uh.... The Imperials and the Stormcloaks. I would like to present my views on each faction, respectively, from a Pro-faction perspective of each and see what, if anything, any posters out there have to say. I apologize in advance if I accidentally reveal any spoilers as the majority of this post is comprised of conjecture based on what little information has been given so far to the public (which is to say, not much) - so any actual correlations to actual in-game events will be entirely by coincidence alone. Some historical lore information may also be inaccurate due to human error. Besides, this is intended as an intelligent, open discussion, not a Team Empire vs. Team Stormcloak post-game slug-fest. :sweat:

 

Arguments supporting a Pro-Imperial Dovakiin:

 

Personally, the most obvious fact one can take into consideration in support of the Imperials is the association with the royal line of the Empire and the Dragonborn. Given the events following the end of Obliviion's main story line, to my knowledge there is never any mention of a successor to the throne (with the exception of Chancellor Ocato named as a regent) prior to the content in Skyrim. If indeed there still remains an actual emperor in power by the time of the events of Skyrim, they are most certainly not of any lineage of the actual Septim royal line. Given that the player character is stated as being one of the last of the Dragonborn, the case could be made, lore-wise, that the player character could be a possible legitimate claimant to the Imperial throne by way of this fact alone. While I doubt this would ever be brought up explicitly in the game itself, it is conceivable that by the player character's exploits in the game could pave the way for an ascension to the Imperial Throne "off-camera" by either the player character, or a descendant thereof.

 

A second point is that a successful uprising by the inhabitants of Skyrim could spark similar events across the entire empire, eventually leaving the entire continent a fractured mess of warring, scheming, petty-kingdoms with little to no ability to stage a defense against a cohesive external threat. While the planes of Oblivion may no longer be a threat, what of the Akavir or Dwemer? Would it be so outlandish as to believe at some point one of these forgotten races were to suddenly reemerge and sweep across all Tamriel unchecked?

 

Arguments supporting a Pro-Stormcloak Dovakiin::

 

After the fall the Septim Dynasty it appears as though the Empire itself is buckling under it's own weight. Coupled with the less-than-stellar treatment of the native populous in the provincial regions of the empire (such as Morrowind) by Imperial occupation forces stationed to maintain "order", this could be seen as an opportunity to throw off the shackles of a foreign oppressor, especially if one chooses to play as an extremely nationalist Nord character or similar. Also given the Septim royal line argument made above, this route would provide an early boost to a would-be claimant's power base as there is already an established group willing to overthrow the Imperial regime. A Dovakiin with their eye on the throne could bypass the court intrigue and dubious pocket stuffing of bringing enough of the Imperial forces into his or her own fold to mount what would be in-essence a coup of the Imperial throne.

 

The region of Skyrim also has a long history of internal strife and civil war. It would seem that the population of Skyrim are then quite accustomed to possessing an independent spirit as embodied by the Stormcloaks fighting for an Imperial-free Skyrim. This also presents the age-old dilemma of personal freedom vs. civil stability. If you choose to support a free Skyrim, there is a potential danger that the system you replace the Imperial rule with is worse than what you had to begin with. Likewise assisting an oppressive Imperial Army could be just as bad as the alternative.

 

 

I don't think there will be a black-and-white distinction of who is the good guy and who isn't regarding these two factions, but instead left up to the player's interpretation based on their presentation in the game. Each side will have their own reasons and methods to accomplish their goals, some good, some bad. The actual decision of the player to support either faction here will be much more enjoyable for people like me whom try to keep their character 'in-tune' with events in the game rather than simply looking at the larger picture of a 'Rebels vs. Empire' dynamic.

 

Comments, ideas, counter arguments?

Edited November 10, 2011 by Xengeance

[Althalus9394]

My character has no loyaties but that of himself. I will join whomsoever gives me the greater rewards or benefits. Its that simple. The moral reasoning is behond my character. ;)

[Dilir79]

I think this would be better on the "spoilers" thread , some people may take this as an "spoiler"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, but it is more appropriate in the Debate section. -mm

Edited November 23, 2011 by myrmaad
Staff edit

[Joram]

This is not an "spoiler", please.

[stars2heaven]

I'm not sure I'm very fond of the Empire. I don't care what they can offer, the offer is still "take it or die". Not much of a choice. I also don't think that whatever the Empire could have offered in protection couldn't have been supplied by friendly relationships and alliances.

 

I don't know anything about the Stormcloaks yet, but I'm betting they are a rag tag bunch of brutal terrorists. I would probably support their ends but not their means. (just a guess)

[myrdred]

Whichever you pick, I can't imagine a player character that runs off with the imperial instead of Ralof during the tutorial. Hmm... should I go with the guy who was a fellow prisoner but doesn't seem to be a petty criminal, or with the guy who said "Sorry we have to chop your head off." Anyone who picks imperial THERE is brain dead. I'm a little stunned it's even an option in the game. You'd have to be retarded.

[knightofheaven]

I dicided early on the game wich side to pick without knowing fully the big picture, mainly becouse of this.

-Who are you?

- Im a redguard...

-A redguard so far from hammerfell? what you doing here? captain what we should do with him?

- oh the block as well who cares... :armscrossed:

-Oh im sorry you go to the block for no aparent reason, but be happy i will send your remains to hammerfell, so everything just gonna be peachy.

:facepalm:

so i recieve a death sentence for aparently trying to leave skyrim.. :wallbash:

 

Then they will sent that poor horse thief to the block, ( stealing a horse is a great ofense...) but he run so got shot in the back, also when entering solitude, for the first time, there is another poor lad that lose it in the block, i mean comom the empire is worst then King Henry the VIII

 

Off course i join with stormcloaks.

I don't know anything about the Stormcloaks yet, but I'm betting they are a rag tag bunch of brutal terrorists. I would probably support their ends but not their means. (just a guess)

Nope you quite wrong regarding the stormcloaks, they are rebels, but they arent milicia or terrorits or guerrilla, they are feudal army under the leadrship of Ulfric Stormcloak. actualy several feudal armies, there is suport of several jarls. so it is in fact Civil war, they are not some rebels in the mountains, making all sort of mischief. They use all the means as the legion uses. also i didnt see any stormcloak use the block, hows that for brutal :whistling:

Edited November 21, 2011 by knightofheaven

[aiwahead]

The fact that almost everyone immediately reacts to the situation by siding with the stormcloaks is actually one of my favorite parts of the game. I did it too, at first. Empire's trying to kill me? Well I'm gonna kick them all across the jerralls, then!

 

Until I started to read a few books about exactly what happened during the great war. And picked up on the controversy as seen from the nord loyalists' side. I wont spoil things, but I will say that there are a few books you should get ahold of before you declare your allegiance just because the rebels are rebels. We all love underdogs, and we all have that visceral turn in our stomach that says "These guys tried to kill me."

 

The thing is, they didn't. The captain was following orders, you were witness to the fact that Jarl Ulfric was at Helgen, rather than on the way to Cyrodil (something that is mentioned as having been 'the plan.') You're also aware that the Thalmor were at least supposedly present at Helgen. Put all this together and it can look very iffy for the empire trying to keep up a semblance of law and order to the whole of the province.

 

While the empire is much weakened, don't count it out.

 

Personally, though, I love how grey it is. The Stormcloaks aren't exactly likable if you get into it. Fuher Ulfric and all.

[knightofheaven]

Personally, though, I love how grey it is. The Stormcloaks aren't exactly likable if you get into it. Fuher Ulfric and all.

yes that is true the man has a ego, the size of the throat of the world. :devil: He is a conquerer.

[Pushkatu]

I'm going to help the natives of the land. I don't know how they'll help each other once they are free, but so far I'm on their side. The Empire is falling appart and I'd hate to see Skyrim dragged into such a colapse. Let them decide for themselves and if they fail, they'll have no one to blame for that... except them of course.