103 replies to this topic

[gurgelstock]

Well what AbleGnome is describing is just an exmaple of the terrible quest bugs. The actual problem is the quests itself. Bethesda manages to create great stories, there are so many quests that tell beautiful little tales, I love how quests often take a completely different direction. There's just two things wrong with their quests in general I think: a) dialogues and b) immersion.

I think the main reason why dialogues suffer is that your own char is mute - I just never get the feeling of beeing in a real conversation. While I didn't skip any of the many dialogues in Mass Effect 1 and 2, I found myself reading ahead and clicking though the dialogues only a couple of minutes in the game in Skyrim. Dialogues are just information in TES, there is no real RP part to them which is really sad.
About immersion, I think most will agree, that the biggest problem is, that nomatter what you do in a quest it simply won't matter that much in the end because often you are forced into a direction and can't even chose other except abonding the quest completely.

Nonetheless, I am having a great time in Skyrim. It is far better than Oblivion and I never expeted it to be as good as Morrowind. Those were other times, today is all about margin and finding new, bigger markets. Casual gameplay will always be important to every game released these days. There's no room for harcore rpg elements that the casual player will not understand or feel overwhelmed by. Good thing, there's modders...

Edited by gurgelstock, 19 November 2011 - 03:20 PM.

[Stratomunchkin]

There's no room for harcore rpg elements that the casual player will not understand or feel overwhelmed by.

Then why spend so much time to develop a massive sandbox RPG in the first place? Don't get me wrong; like yourself, I'm having a great time in Skyrim. But if we have all these elements available to achieve a far greater amount of immersion and a far more satisfying experience, why doesn't Bethesda implement them in the first place? There are only two (maybe three) possible answers to this: lazyness and profit margins (and in the case of No. 3, lacklustre writing talent).

I know the modding community can - theoretically - solve most complaints. I'm saying theoretically because, lets face it, 9 out of 10 mods will be about sex and clothes and weapons' variety.

And for the remaining 1 out of 10, you get additional problems like having to redo all the voiced lines in some aspects because you obviously don't have access to the actual speakers Beth used for the job (for example, if you wanted to expand on the situation in Falkreath or the intrigue between Greymanes and Battleborns).

The important and very fundamental question remains, however, if trying to add in the flavor yourself in a product you paid the full price for is something that should be done by unpaid customers on their own money and own time. While I admire the freedom the Construction Kits give us, it increasingly appears to me that they additionally serve as a cheap way for Bethesda for not having to invest additional development time.

Edited by Stratomunchkin, 19 November 2011 - 03:47 PM.

[AbleGnome]

And, by the way, the boss I described is too powerful for me to reanimate. Oh well, I got his sword anyway.

[gurgelstock]

I agree Stratomunchkin. There have been moments in Oblivion and FO3 where I thougt to myself "They just didn't use a higher res texture for that because they know the community is going to do it eventually."

I'm saying theoretically because, lets face it, 9 out of 10 mods will be about sex and clothes and weapons' variety.

Replace "weapons' variety" with beauty mods and you're spot on

AbleGnome, I was talking about the general problem of doing stuff before getting the related quest or talking to quest npcs while they are not at their designated location. This can screw up quests which sucks but - imho - has nothing to do with the quest quality in general.

[AbleGnome]

I agree Stratomunchkin. There have been moments in Oblivion and FO3 where I thougt to myself "They just didn't use a higher res texture for that because they know the community is going to do it eventually."

I'm saying theoretically because, lets face it, 9 out of 10 mods will be about sex and clothes and weapons' variety.

Replace "weapons' variety" with beauty mods and you're spot on

AbleGnome, I was talking about the general problem of doing stuff before getting the related quest or talking to quest npcs while they are not at their designated location. This can screw up quests which sucks but - imho - has nothing to do with the quest quality in general.

Yup agree. Don't agree about lack of textures and hoping the mod community will fix it. What about 360 and PS3 players? What, by the way, is the majority platform?

[caglart]

Oblivion was the same. I really wanted to join those sirens to lure men to their hut and kill them there - but I just couldn't.

And Skyrim is no different. They really could have done some great quests that actually change the world you live in. They implement vampirism, they even have the little town that is struggling not to be overrun by vampires and even if you are a vampire all you can do is help the town. I wanted to turn it into my little vampire hideaway, where my fellow vamps would welcome me even as a feral vampire and where Idgord the Younger would wait for me in her stables to feed on her.

I think this is a great idea and you should add a mod request for this Adding little details such as this enhance gaming experience.

In my first playthrough I became a vampire but in my second time I avoid that because I don't think it is fun.

I am waiting for the modding community as well...

[chrismgtis]

Their does need to be more freedom. It would be interesting if you were able to wreak havoc, destroying everything except the bare essentials. Skyrim is gorgeous though. I've been playing since release hour and still haven't discovered everything.

[chrismgtis]

All I can say is I am 100% happy. Why? Because it's not Oblivion.

[xaliqen]

you are forced to beat an old man to death TWICE or you'll just have to ignore that quest altogether. There is no 'good' ending to that quest which really upset me. Again, if you want to be a good guy, you are just SOL.

It's easy to forget there's often no bonus for completing quests other than certain monetary or item rewards. You don't get awarded XP for completing the quests, since that's not how the game works. That being the case, not completing certain quests is a very viable option. If you want to be completely 'good,' it's pretty much essential that you not complete certain quests, since not everyone who gives quests is a good person/entity.

I guess the core of what I'm saying is: It's difficult to be a saint if you're working for a demon.

Edited by xaliqen, 20 November 2011 - 09:42 AM.

[Wyrdfire]

I have been playing Skyrim for a few days now and the biggest problem I have (besides the bugs that don't allow you to finish certain quests)is the fact that while Bethesda claims that the world is so full of freedom and choices, you really have very little choices when it comes to questing or just running around trying to change the land of Skyrim on your own.

You make good points CelerasRingor. The RP'ing (freedom & choices) aspect in TES games is what I always loved. But now with Skyrim I'm not that sure anymore...