493 replies to this topic

[Draco856]

Well, I got it before so that's probably why it vanished for me

[uruku7]

I killed him. His buffs seem crap to me, so I got the fire one and was done. He no longer had a purpose, talked too much, and just hung out at the Throat all day, every day. Like any other NPC, once he's done, he just has the same handful of things to say, over and over. Figured I'd at least get a fight out of him, but he damn near just let me kill him.

I don't believe in second-chances anyway. He was at one point evil, even if he isn't now, and therefor in my eyes, forever guilty.

Edited by uruku7, 29 November 2011 - 12:40 AM.

[oldspice2625]

I killed him. His buffs seem crap to me, so I got the fire one and was done. He no longer had a purpose, talked too much, and just hung out at the Throat all day, every day. Like any other NPC, once he's done, he just has the same handful of things to say, over and over. Figured I'd at least get a fight out of him, but he damn near just let me kill him.

I don't believe in second-chances anyway. He was at one point evil, even if he isn't now, and therefor in my eyes, forever guilty.

So if you make a deep mistake, We should kill you? There should be absolutely no chance for repenting at all? That's a waste in my opinion, such a waste. Extinguishing a life for something someone did before, eridicates all chance for positive influence they could have had in the future, just to (in a juvenile way) satisfy some ego-driven justice complex.

"for the greater good" comes up a lot... in my honest opinion, we all are never good, nor bad, but lead lives of shades of grey. Be honest now, have you done something to someone that hurt them greatly? What if the world abided by the system you propose? YOu would be severely punished. But to what end? What purpose would you being punished serve? It would generate nothing good.

This is the same thing. If you kill him, you take away all the possible good he could do. You get rid of all that knowledge, all that power, all that potential... just for some crazy bloodlust. A temporary fix to a permanent problem.

I don't mean to insult or argue or anything, just to present a different stance you might wish to evaluate.

[Lehcar]

How could I kill Paarthurnax? He's the only nice dragon in existence. All the others just want to roast me or tear off my head.

Edited by Lehcar, 29 November 2011 - 06:18 AM.

[Beriallord]

Honestly I would rather kill the Blades off than kill Parhurnax. The game basically doesn't give you a choice, they should give an alternative to close that quest by killing the Blades instead. Besides he is the last living dragon, and as long as he behaves, I don't see a reason to kill him just for vengeance of something thousands of years ago.

Edited by Beriallord, 29 November 2011 - 06:44 AM.

[Lehcar]

I haven't gotten that far yet,but do you really have to pick a side? I managed to stay out of it thus far.

[Draco856]

He's not the last dragon, nor will he ever be the last dragon. He was the last one awake for some time, but now the others are waking up. While I killed him simply for a want of power, to take over as the most powerful Dovah from the vacuum left by Alduin, I still never could completely trust him, there was so much good he could have done in the world, but instead he just sat on top of the mountain, never once did he ever give aid to those below after Alduins first defeat. In those thousands of years he was on top of the mountain watching us get closer to our own destruction, he could have at least told a Greybeard to come down and help us during some of the crises. I've now just realized, Martin never had to sacrifice himself if Paarthurnax came down to help us fight back Oblivion, and in all honesty, he should have if he was truly good.

[Khorak]

Going against ones nature is good and all, but did you listen to the part where he said he would FORCE the others to listen weather they wanted to or not? He wouldn't give the others the choice of their own path, he would force his on them, and for that he had to die, at least for me. No being should be forced to bend to another beings will, we bend through honor, deed, strength, never force. Force will only breed contempt, contempt breeds hate, hate breeds anger, and anger breeds war.

Poor circular reasoning that completely ignores entirely what Paarthurnax and others tell you about the sheer nature of dragons. They are outright born to dominate. It's in their blood. Paarthurnax defeated this nature through a long period of philosophical introspection and meditation. He doesn't just know a better way for his people, who were all completely obliterated for their trouble the first time round, he's actually living it.

Paathurnax saying he will force his path on the other dragons is like a revolutionary promising to overthrow the reign of a bloodthirsty dictator who will get literally everyone killed by their angry neighbours, and replace it with a peaceful way that will allow them to all, you know, not be massacred by vast hordes of angry, pitchfork wielding locals.

Dragons are intrinsically violent, dominating and outright evil. Paarthurnax intends to force them to change that (because why else would they follow him?). This is good. Only some lunatic modern conception of 'freedom above all else' would claim that what he hopes to do is a bad thing. Freedom is rubbish when it exists only to allow house-sized, fire-breathing monsters to destroy, murder and dominate at will.

[Gilibran]

@Draco I doubt Paarthunax could take on Dagon. Martin turned into the Avatar of Akatosh, I think that is a lot more powerfull then just a "normal" dragon. Paarthunax could have easily taken on Alduin himself if he could take down Dagon.

I think he deserves to live, Dont forget he showed you how to learn the one word that defeats dragons, makes them mortal. It's a trust issue, you could just as easilly use it against him and he'd be completely defenseless. That and some of his other remarks, to me made clear that he has changed or at least tries very hard to fit into and come to terms with the way the new world works.

Apart from that, i put some thought into how things could go after Alduins defeat. The Thalmor dont like the dragons that much and i doubt the dragons would listen to any other then the dragonborn if they are asked for aid. They could be a huge asset when Skyrim & the Empire finally clash with the Thalmor, or just in the defense of Skyrim when the Thalmor do decide to invade it themselves.

[Draco856]

My reasoning is very flawed, and I love dragons a lot, but no matter how much I'm TOLD he's changed his ways, he doesn't do much in the way of SHOWING it, sure he helps you find the lost shout, by telling you about the Elder Scroll and the Time Wound, which gives me an idea. We still have the scroll, the time wound is still there, how about a way to see what he did before teaching the ancient Nords the Voice, the crimes he's accused of. It would put the issue to rest. Esbern must have some record of Paarthurnaxes crimes during the Dragon War.

As per Paarthurnaxes "Way of the Voice" he preaches peace above all, that, at least in my mind isn't going against his nature at all, it's simply doing nothing at all. The Greybeards won't even attack you after killing him, who cares about philosophy then? You pretty much just murdered their Grandmaster, anyone else would have knocked you off the mountain, but no, not the Greybeards, peace at all costs, even their lives. Who would want to live like that? Every being desires conflict in some form, weather mental, or physical, it's all conflict to go against that is to just wither away, at least that's how I view it. The way Paarthurnax views the world is detached, he wouldn't care one way or the other, only when that world was threatened with total and complete destruction did he act, what does that say about him?

About losing his knowledge of the world and everything he's experienced in his thousands of years, you absorb his soul, pretty much all of his knowledge, all you need to do is find a way to access it.


About the Oblivion Crisis, I never said he could defeat Dagon, but he could have helped minimize the chance the barriers would break in the first place. Once the gates started opening, he could have helped destroy some of them, but there's never any mention of any Greybeard ever helping hold back the horde of Daedra that poured out.