40 replies to this topic

[Schattenu]

Let's be completely honest, here. The ONLY reason people kill Paarthurnax in this game is because they suck up to Delphine and the Blades, and they've figured out some lame way to rationalize it (with off-point analogies or whatever eases their conscience).

The truth is something the Elder Scroll shows you: that Paarthurnax betrayed Alduin. Any "lore" or whatever people say is nothing compared to what you see with your own eyes. If you can turn around and betray Paarthurnax after that, well that just proves what kind of person you are. If you're role-playing a vindictive, despicable villain, then go ahead and kill him. Otherwise, you're betraying your own character.

That seems a little judgmental, I don't know about all that. From pretty early on I had a suspicion that Paarthurnax was manipulating things for his own benefit. No real hard evidence behind that, just a gut feeling. Seemed kind of ludicrously long-term if he planned that, but with someone as unaffected by time as he is, it's not too ridiculous.

That being said, I certainly didn't kill him out of any loyalty to the Blades, especially not Delphine. I killed him out of that gut feeling I just couldn't get rid of, even if I tried to justify letting him live using the evidence that the Elder Scroll showed me.

[jordanLoL]

^ You bring up a good point. However, why did he betray Alduin in the first place? What has he gained by betraying him? He seems to have bitterness towards Alduin, and not so much for man. I got the feeling he was trying to save his own butt by using you to defeat Alduin as well. But, he is also aware of the prophecy. He knows that Alduin and Dovahkiin are destined to confront each other to decide the fate of the world. Saving himself from Alduin is just a bonus.

I believe Paarthurnax's long meditation and following of the way of the voice has changed his perspective on things. Even if he is trying to manipulate to save himself, I don't believe he has malicious plans in the future.

[Schattenu]

Just figured he wanted Alduin out of the way so he can take over leadership of the dragons, which he does if he's still alive when you get back from Sovngarde. Yeah, he says he'll rule peacefully, but you never know. Entirely possible he's changed and grown more peaceful since his initial betrayal to Alduin, but like I said, I just couldn't shake that gut feeling. If anything there's more evidence that he'd be a perfectly reasonable and peaceful leader than anything, I admit.

[BrettM]

Just figured he wanted Alduin out of the way so he can take over leadership of the dragons, which he does if he's still alive when you get back from Sovngarde.

I think that is an odd spin to put on what happened. Paarth says he's going to try to convert other dragons to the Way of the Voice, but that sounds more like missionary work than taking over leadership. Odahving says that he's willing to follow YOU, since you've proven to be Alduin's superior as a "debater" (by dragon definitions). Paarth has not done anything the other dragons are bound to respect from their viewpoint, so I doubt the others are just going to automatically fall in line for him.

If Paarth really betrayed Alduin as a means of taking his place, why didn't he do so during the thousands of years after Alduin was banished? Once the only humans who knew Dragonrend were dead, he had nothing much to fear during all that time. Yet he sat on his mountain and let the Blades exterminate most or all of the rest of his kind over the centuries.

[Turtlicious]

War does not determine who is right - only who is left. ~ Bertrand Russell

Maybe this is it right here, this one sentence. Maybe Pathurnax was protected by the way of the voice, he no longer cared about who is or isn't right or wrong, only survival. And to be honest, I can't think of a better way to survive then just talking to grey beards and helping humans.

[Kyuukei]

Just figured he wanted Alduin out of the way so he can take over leadership of the dragons, which he does if he's still alive when you get back from Sovngarde. Yeah, he says he'll rule peacefully, but you never know. Entirely possible he's changed and grown more peaceful since his initial betrayal to Alduin, but like I said, I just couldn't shake that gut feeling. If anything there's more evidence that he'd be a perfectly reasonable and peaceful leader than anything, I admit.

He willingly teaches you Dragonrend. It's basically a ridiculously powerful loaded gun that could be used against him at any point. And yet he entrusts you with it after it was long-lost and makes no attempts to eat you or anything at all. This does not sound like someone who is planning a power grab. And did you forget he said that all he really plans to do is talk with them about the Way of the Voice and that he doesn't expect much success in the first place? Odahviing was totally all "psh, good luck with that."

[BrettM]

And did you forget he said that all he really plans to do is talk with them about the Way of the Voice and that he doesn't expect much success in the first place? Odahviing was totally all "psh, good luck with that."

Well, every time I see a dragon swooping around high up, enjoying himself and not attacking anything, I just figure Paarth made a convert.

But now I'm conflicted when I see a dragon attacking a giant or troll or something of the sort. I mean, even good dragons have to eat and they aren't attacking anything I wouldn't. Am I entitled to jump in and take that dragon down without any proof that he is hostile to the sentient races?

Hmmmm. A pretty moral dilemma for those of us who didn't kill Paarth. We no longer have a license to kill dragons at will if there is a chance that some have decided to get along with the other races instead of ruling them. In fact, peaceful coexistence of dragons and mortals is not even unprecedented, since a couple of the books seem to indicate that this was the case in both Atmora and Tamriel until the Dragon Priests of Tamriel went rogue and the Dragon Wars began.

[Schattenu]

Just figured he wanted Alduin out of the way so he can take over leadership of the dragons, which he does if he's still alive when you get back from Sovngarde. Yeah, he says he'll rule peacefully, but you never know. Entirely possible he's changed and grown more peaceful since his initial betrayal to Alduin, but like I said, I just couldn't shake that gut feeling. If anything there's more evidence that he'd be a perfectly reasonable and peaceful leader than anything, I admit.

He willingly teaches you Dragonrend. It's basically a ridiculously powerful loaded gun that could be used against him at any point. And yet he entrusts you with it after it was long-lost and makes no attempts to eat you or anything at all. This does not sound like someone who is planning a power grab. And did you forget he said that all he really plans to do is talk with them about the Way of the Voice and that he doesn't expect much success in the first place? Odahviing was totally all "psh, good luck with that."

I've already said that there's more evidence to support not killing him than there is to kill him, but that doesn't change the fact that there's a feeling of something off about him for me that I can't shake. Logically, it makes no sense, but neither does the Blade's stance on the whole thing.

[kradus]

If not for paarthurnax there would be no blades or anything, he's the main reason humanity had a fighting chance.

[ThyAssWhupn]

The reason why they created the scenario is because it is a highly subjective topic.

Anyone could take either side and no one could say they are wrong for doing so.