662 replies to this topic

[amgepo]

thanks for the answers buddy.

1) if the command means that arrows dont get stuck into things than wouldnt it make sense that the mod that makes MORE arrows stuck into things might be the problem? (the arrows in the everywhere mod)

Well, I understand that mod only affects actors. If so, arrows stick on actors and on any other object are handled by different settings and the arrow cleaning from actors was working Ok in previous versions, so I doubt they touched it. If that mods does affect arrows sticked to the floor or unanimated objects then it could be the cause of you experimenting this problem harder than others.

2) how would u imagine the new ranged kill moves effect this bloating? arent these small changes that occur when u get a kill move and dont leave any traces afterwards?!

Archers seem to be hit harder by this glitch and this is one of the two changes introduced by 1.5 (the other one being the arrow cleanning that also affect archers more than othe characters). It looks difficult to botch thing in the kill cams, but maybe they have used a harcoded method similar to the already mentioned registerforupdate to control the timming of the camera moves or the changes between real time and bullet time. I find it quite improbable, but it's not totally impossible.

3) the bloating of the save files seem to effect how spcript mods work. especially the Deadly Combat mod, which i wont allow myself to play without. does this make sense?
because up until now i thought the bloating was due to scripts getting stuck and accumulating on one another.... the grape metaphor u gave me. like it has nothing to do with data save like arrows and what not....
am i wrong?

In skyrim, there is a fixed CPU time percentage for scripts. and this form of bloating increases the number of functions running as the faulty script receives less CPU time. This way the more scripts you have and the heavier they are, the more bloat the faulty script will cause. Through once it started, it competes with itself so it won't need other scripts for increasing the bloat.

As the CPU time for scripts is fixed. the more a mod relies on scripts the more it will be affected.

This problem being caused by something done to arrows is yet a theory, while the script bloating is something verified. I think Bethesda could have used improper instructions in the scripts or hard code handling arrows, causing script bloatting. My hope is that leaving no arrows stucked in the floor, will make those scripts or hard code not running. The same is applied to killmoves, though I see less chances of this being part of the problem.

[CaezerHades]

do i need to drag the scripts source code into the data folder...??(necessary?)

[topeira]

1) i guess it isnt possible to create a mod whose sole purpose is it clean scripts or let the CPU have a larger window for scripts every minutes or so, ey?
otherwise someone would've done it already...

2) i use a Q6600 at 2.4GHZ CPU. is it too slow to run a mod like "deadly combat"?

3) the reason im afraid of using YOUR mod is because im afraid it might cause script lag or bloating due to scripts. i understand that your mod reduces bloating of game data in the save file, but im not sure if it's healthy for my script lags....
what can u tell me about this?

[amgepo]

do i need to drag the scripts source code into the data folder...??(necessary?)

No. The source code is not needed unless you plan to modify it. Indeed I placed the code out of it's normal place to avoid overwriting the source codes of people installing this mod. I only include the codes should someone want to modify any part. Don't like the idea of adding unneded extra files to say the truth.

1) i guess it isnt possible to create a mod whose sole purpose is it clean scripts or let the CPU have a larger window for scripts every minutes or so, ey?
otherwise someone would've done it already...

I'm pondering on this very idea for some days. If someone find a way to make scripts themselves visible to the code of other scripts this would be possible. I tried different tricks without any luck yet. But well, scripts are some kind of attached part of the object, they are there and there may be an indirect way. SkSE could also offer a way here once it support papyrus, though I don't like the idea of doing a fix with extra requirements. In this case it would be like saying, you can fix your save but only if you have always the last update of Skyrim.

Increassing the CPU rate could help, but the problem would happen anyway. Suddenly another program could use more resources than the ones expected or various scripts could perform heavy tasked instructions at the same time and BAM! the bloatting would start.

I see your point about doing it only temporarilly. I assume the idea you have is to use it to give the extra running scripts enough time to finish their tasks, but this problem can't be controled, need to be avoided or purged. Once the bloating starts it goes forward really fast.

I tryed stopping all scripts and then starting them again, as a possible way to clean this, but the functions are not cleaned, they simply stay at the same spot and once they have permissions again they follow their execution at the same point.

2) i use a Q6600 at 2.4GHZ CPU. is it too slow to run a mod like "deadly combat"?

No Idea. I didn't know the mod (I didn't play the game except for testings since december -modding can be very taskfull-).But I think a single mod can't suppose any problems (unless the damned registerforupdate instruction is used). It's more a case of which other mods you use along.

3) the reason im afraid of using YOUR mod is because im afraid it might cause script lag or bloating due to scripts. i understand that your mod reduces bloating of game data in the save file, but im not sure if it's healthy for my script lags....
what can u tell me about this?

A person in the forums said that both this mod and Mart's one making things worse when affected by this bloatting.I doubt it. But it's really difficult to measure something like that and I see it quite unprobable (unless having a lot of never cleaned objects helps with the bloat in any way. Besides once the bloatting starts you can kiss goodby your save anyway.

The scripts on this mod aren't running constantly. all of them reacts to events like you being far or near enough. Neither of the scripts will run twice each time you visit their cells and they will run for less than a second.

Besides, there are not new scritps. Are modified versions of vanilla ones. Some of them are heavier (yet very light) than the originals and some of them lighter.

But anyway, what this mod do is eliminate the objects containing those scrips. Not using this mod, vanilla objecs and their scripts will acumulate, which will make things worse in a short time.

Edited by amgepo, 11 April 2012 - 01:32 AM.

[CaezerHades]

okay...thanks for that answer...

[topeira]

thanks for your answers, ampego. as always - very insightful and kind

i have given up and started yet another character. the 4th ones. 3rd one in 4 weeks, just to rid myself of the issues.

maybe the clean installation AND the new character (with barely 4 mods using scripts, either in BSA and in PEX files) will help.
after 2 or 3 hours of playing everything is smooth.
this is definitly not a solution but i will keep my eyes open and using all your advices i will try to avoid issues.

it seems like some mods would stick too much garbage into my saved game of the last installation. like everything i started with the previous installation would get corrupted somehow.

the Deadly combat author is a very good modder with deep understanding of the bloating issue. he has written a lengthy document on how to optimize scripts and how to avoid bloating. he isnt using the commant (he uses onSingleUpdate) and as a matter of fact he is the only modder who made a UI option in the game to REMOVE the mod's scripts manually before uninstalling the mod.
good lad.

do you think that BSA files can contain these onUpdate calls too?
i can change pex into txt and search them but i cant do that with BSA. how can i be careful?


besides that i was hoping u can help with with a small matter.
there is a new headshot mod for arrows.
i was hoping that u could perhaps take a look at it and see if there is anything problematic or malicious in the scripts.
http://skyrim.nexusm...le.php?id=14797

feel free to tell me no if im asking for a favor that might be a bit time consuming. i have no clue.

much better yet - if there is something in particular i could look for (like "onupdate") to make sure it's "safe" than by all means tell me.
i told the headshot modder about the onupdate issue and he went and read your thread (about freezing issues and save bloats) and changes the onupdate to onsingleupdate.

should i assume the mod is safe or is there something else i should also look for in the PEX files?

thanks mate.

Edited by topeira, 11 April 2012 - 06:08 PM.

[amgepo]

okay...thanks for that answer...

Glad to help

thanks for your answers, ampego. as always - very insightful and kind

i have given up and started yet another character. the 4th ones. 3rd one in 4 weeks, just to rid myself of the issues.

maybe the clean installation AND the new character (with barely 4 mods using scripts, either in BSA and in PEX files) will help.
after 2 or 3 hours of playing everything is smooth.
this is definitly not a solution but i will keep my eyes open and using all your advices i will try to avoid issues.

it seems like some mods would stick too much garbage into my saved game of the last installation. like everything i started with the previous installation would get corrupted somehow.

the Deadly combat author is a very good modder with deep understanding of the bloating issue. he has written a lengthy document on how to optimize scripts and how to avoid bloating. he isnt using the commant (he uses onSingleUpdate) and as a matter of fact he is the only modder who made a UI option in the game to REMOVE the mod's scripts manually before uninstalling the mod.
good lad.

Borgut, yes, I remember him from beth forums.

do you think that BSA files can contain these onUpdate calls too?
i can change pex into txt and search them but i cant do that with BSA. how can i be careful?

Yes, BSA files are equally risky as they can contain script files. I use fallout mod manager to open BSAs.

[topeira]

damnit
now i need to watch out for BSA as well.

i asked the author of "the imaginator" about onupdate on his own mod. he said this:

"the answer to your question is YES the helper script has ONUPDATE in it. It also has a WAIT function which is designed to be sure that the UPDATE completes. So far, nobody has said anything about IMAGINATOR causing "bloat", so use it or don't. For the hell of it, I changed the line of script to ONSINGLEUPDATE as that thread suggests and the helper doesn't disappear when you're done with him. The remaining scripts are all PAPYRUS FRAGMENTS and are for the IMAGINATOR settings."

im not sure what he meant and if his mod is safe. what do u reckon?

[amgepo]

damnit
now i need to watch out for BSA as well.

i asked the author of "the imaginator" about onupdate on his own mod. he said this:

"the answer to your question is YES the helper script has ONUPDATE in it. It also has a WAIT function which is designed to be sure that the UPDATE completes. So far, nobody has said anything about IMAGINATOR causing "bloat", so use it or don't. For the hell of it, I changed the line of script to ONSINGLEUPDATE as that thread suggests and the helper doesn't disappear when you're done with him. The remaining scripts are all PAPYRUS FRAGMENTS and are for the IMAGINATOR settings."

im not sure what he meant and if his mod is safe. what do u reckon?

Despite his concerning answer, the file use properly the safe registerforsingleupdate command instead of the disastrous registerforupdate one.

I read both your posts and saw that you were talking about onsingleupdate, which as far as I know didn't exist. He may misunderstand you and test that inexistent event obviously not working. That is the possible reason for his strange answer (I doubt he was trying to scare you ).

Both registerforupdate and registerforsingleupdate use the onupdate event in different ways, to recover the control.

I already posted in the imaginator thread, to solve the little misunderstanding

Edited by amgepo, 12 April 2012 - 09:20 AM.

[topeira]

you are so... so... responsible and mature and helpful. it hurt my bones

thank you, again.

the CK cant open BSA files, right?
do u have any idea of "crimson tide" is using registeronupdate?
http://skyrim.nexusm...le.php?id=12798

it looks like this tool
http://tes.nexusmods...ile.php?id=3117
can open BSA files pretty OK. but inside i cant read the PEX files.
well, i CAN, but if i search "registeronupdate" i dont find anything, while i DO find "onupdate".
does this mean the PEX files i was trying to search is clear of the problematic command or does it simply mean i couldnt read it thoroughly enough to know because it is encripted?

if it's the latter than how can i open PEX files?

Edited by topeira, 12 April 2012 - 04:23 PM.