968 replies to this topic

[holliberri]

While we're on the subject of the menu folder-- the only glitch I've found in this mod so far is that the DarNified versions are based on the old configs, and not the current ones (at least this is true of the DarNified Dark UI stats menu, and I presume it is the same for the regular DarNified UI stats menu).

This is not a good thing, because the current DarN configs no longer change/customize/use font 5 (this is left at default), but instead use custom versions of fonts 2 and 3.

So if I replace my current DarkUI'd DarN stats menu with yours, suddenly the stats menu is 1) misaligned (not a big problem, if annoying), and 2) mouseover menus for the stats menu suddenly use the "handwriting" font (which was a custom font under the old configs, but is reverted to the default font under the new configs, and the current configs don't use font 5 for the mouseover menus anymore, since it is no longer a custom font, if you follow).

So it would be nice if you would get a copy of DarNified UI 1.26 and DarkUI's DarN 1.46 and conform the new stats_menu.xml to remove the level progress sliders.

While you're at it, I would personally appreciate the inclusion of a 'OBXP-conformed' version of the DarkUI'd DarN Major Jim's Stats Menu, which I use, but has no OBXP version included.

Otherwise, the mod is working fine; I like the config menu quite a lot. Haven't played long enough to level, but just working from the numbers (which I could finally see via the config menu), it seems like it should be OK (and of course, if it's not, I can change it, so no worries).

Thanks!

[SirFrederik]

Regarding the menus folder; this simply includes some stats menus/level-up menus. Only the level-up menu is really important (without it you get the vanilla screen where you choose which stats to increase). The others are simply interface changes (ie no level progress bar).

[andro21]

well, holliberri has a great point, and is basically what i was worried about. my darn is the darkui darn 1.46. urs doesnt seem to be updated to that version, which would be a problem. so if ur going to include these files, could u please do so with the most updated files? and include exactly which files we should use and should not use (i never put files into my folders unless i know what they do and that they are 100% necessary to make the mod work).

[holliberri]

and include exactly which files we should use and should not use (i never put files into my folders unless i know what they do and that they are 100% necessary to make the mod work).

Well, these files are in no way required to make the mod work in any case... well, OK, strings.xml and levelup_menu.xml are most likely required, in order to make the levelup menu read and work properly-- but stats_menu.xml is only needed to make whichever of the UI mods you might have (or the Vanilla UI) "work" with the mod in a purely cosmetic sense. Basically, what they do is replace the stats_menu.xml with one that is supposed to be the same as the one from either the Vanilla or the UI named in the folder-- with the level progress bars removed because they are now irrelevant, as you do not progress in skill due to use, which is what those bars normally track. Also the "progress to next level" bar is also removed (I think), because the game can't track the relationship between your earned XP and how many XP you need to reach the next level (and even if it could, it certainly couldn't show it via its "Progress to next level bar" which is hardcoded with respect to what data it displays afaik).

Anyway, the point is, that with this mod running, using the regular stats_menu.xml file provided by whichever UI mod you're using, these progress bars would never move/always remain empty, which many people find annoying for various reasons. So replacement files are provided which are meant to replace the custom versions of that file (based on whatever customizations your particular UI variation does), just with these now-pointless bars no longer present.

However, because some of the replacement files are based on older versions of the relevant UI than the current one, the replacement is not "clean" as it is meant to be. Naturally Vanilla is the same as it should be, and BTMod hasn't changed in ages, so that should be correct as well.

But DarNified UI and DarkUI'd DarN's current versions use different base versions of stats_menu.xml than the ones OBXP used for its replacement files (the XML is not the same code), and plus, some files are not converted that should be... the current version of DarN's configs do include the levelup menu, which has now been DarNified-- and thus also DarNified DarkUI'd-- whereas the older version of DarN's configs did not include the levelup menu, so there is no DarNified levelup menu replacement in the OBXP package, but only a DarkUI (but unDarNified) version. And there is also a merged stats menu available for DarkUI'd DarN, which includes elements of MajorJim's UIs stat's menu, which is yet another chunk of different XML which is not available as a converted file in the OBXP package.

But none of this matters to the actual working of the mod as such, with the exception of strings.xml and levelup_menu.xml, which, except for being unDarNified, should otherwise be fine; and users of Vanilla or BTMod should experience no problems whatsoever, as the replacement files are based on the current versions of the originals. Even DarNified UI/DarkUI'd DarN users shouldn't have any serious problems except with the stats menu, which will be quite ugly by comparison to the rest of the menus, with misaligned and possibly truncated mouseover text in the wrong font. The levelup menu will be gigantic (default size) rather than neatly DarNified, but that's not a really big problem (though obviously if stuff is being fixed and updated, that might as well be done too), but should work fine otherwise.

[andro21]

well, thanks a lot for the great description. i understand now. unfortunately, all that visual stuff makes this mod much less ok to me. sure, its stupid to judge a mod by its cover, so-to-speak, but the ugliness sounds like itll be bad enough that i wont be happy with seeing it. maybe ill get over it? but for all intents and purposes, im lookin forward to this being updated to current versions, seeing as that dark darn will never be pried from my computer for anything.

[holliberri]

well, thanks a lot for the great description. i understand now. unfortunately, all that visual stuff makes this mod much less ok to me. sure, its stupid to judge a mod by its cover, so-to-speak, but the ugliness sounds like itll be bad enough that i wont be happy with seeing it. maybe ill get over it? but for all intents and purposes, im lookin forward to this being updated to current versions, seeing as that dark darn will never be pried from my computer for anything.

Well, actually, it is bad, and you won't get over it--- I sure didn't. The difference between you and me though, is that I've been using DarN's configs (both with and without DarkUI) long enough that I knew immediately what was wrong and how to fix it at least temporarily, enough that I could stand to use the mod (since I agree that it would be extremely unfortunate to be put in the position where you couldn't use the mod over what is ultimately a very minor, but very visibly disturbing, issue, when the rest of the mod is fine).

Again, I haven't leveled up with the mod yet, so I haven't seen the levelup_menu, but I don't expect it to be a problem (other than being default size, which it may not even be if it uses font 1 instead of some other font), so I don't know how to change that, or rather I don't know if anything needs to be changed in that (other than it needs to be completely updated, but as far as I know, there shouldn't be any gross visual anomalies that should be terribly upseting using the old version of the file rather than the new).

But for stats_menu.xml, all you have to do is

1. rename and install either the DarNified or DarNified DarkUI stats_menu.xml normally (in order to install the file properly, it must be reamed to "stats_menu.xml" and placed in menus\main. That's probably in the readme, but I didn't need those installation instructions, so I didn't check the readme to see if they were there).

2. open the installed copy of stats_menu.xml in a text editor (Notepad will do if you don't have anything better; I use Notepad ++, but plain old Notepad will open the file well enough). You do have to choose "open with" from the context menu when you select the file in Windows Explorer or whatever file manager you use, otherwise (if you double-click) Windows will try to open it in a web browser, which won't allow you to edit the file. Since we have to edit the file, this would be bad, so just make sure to Open With Notepad rather than double-click to open with the default application.

3. Scroll down or search until you see

<text name="stat_pop_text">

about two thirds of the way to the bottom. In this section, you will see an entry saying

<font> 5 </font>	<!-- DarN 3 -->

In other words, this setting is using font 5, even though the DarN default setting is font 3. Why, when this is called "DarNified DarkUI stats_menu.xml", does this file not use the DarN default setting ? No idea, but change that "5" to a "3", so that the status popup on mouseover will use DarN's custom font 3, rather than the default font 5 (Handwriting, which is very much the worst choice for this menu).

4. Scroll down even further until you see

<text name="stat_item_value">

Underneath that section, you will find again a setting that says

<font> 5 </font> <!-- DarN 3 -->

again indicating that this menu will display in font 5, even though DarN's default is font 3. Again, change the "5" to a "3" in order to correct this.

5. Save the file.

I'm 95% certain that the same changes apply to the DarNified stats_menu.xml, though I haven't looked at it; they should be essentially the same file, though, since the only difference between DarN's natural configs and the DarkUI'd version of DarN's configs is that the DarkUI versions add a path to the DarkUI background textures, and that minor addition is not relevant to these replacement files (the DarkUI backgrounds appear just fine; the main problem is in the font settings listed above).

I'm sure there are other tweaks/corrections that could be made to 'clean up' other minor problems like the faulty justification of the row headers (the line saying "Major Skills" is placed too high and is "pushed up" half under the upper edge of the scrollbox border), but honestly I don't spend enough time in my stats menu to care about these things, and certainly not enough to go trawling through the entire XML file to conform it when I don't know what I'm doing in that level of detail. The main, grossly visible problem was the use of font 5 in error on the mouseover popup menus, and that should now be fixed if you follow the instructions above.

That little hack should be enough to make the issue bearable until a real update is provided-- it's enough for me, anyway, because even for the little bit I've used it, I'm really, really, enjoying this mod; I think you will too, once you don't have to be thrown back on your heels by that ugly Handwriting font on mouseover of your stats menu . For me, it's exactly what I wanted, and it's working perfectly so far, so fixing this little thing (until a full correct update is provided) is enough to keep me hanging on (until a full correct update is provided).

Hope this helps.

[fardriel]

I have to thank you there, holli. It was kinda getting on my nerves as well.

Come to think of it, couldn't you edit the MyDocumentsMyGamesOblivion ini file to just use the same fonts for both 3 and 5? Every time i see font 5 it angers me... it's just a horrible looking font in my opinion. (Go ahead and write the steps to do that if it works and you feel the urge to, since I don't wanna put steps down for something that doesn't work.)

[holliberri]

I have to thank you there, holli. It was kinda getting on my nerves as well.

Come to think of it, couldn't you edit the MyDocumentsMyGamesOblivion ini file to just use the same fonts for both 3 and 5? Every time i see font 5 it angers me... it's just a horrible looking font in my opinion. (Go ahead and write the steps to do that if it works and you feel the urge to, since I don't wanna put steps down for something that doesn't work.)

You're welcome .

I suppose you could alternatively edit the ini, but I personally wouldn't do that, as it's a global change to the game and I have no idea what font 5 is normally used for (other than some of the notes), and so changing that to font 3 might cause problems with/changes to other menus or written materials that I could not predict and do not want to deal with.

But in theory, it's also a relatively valid solution that anyone using a DarN's variant is free to try, since if you're using some DarN's variant, you probably already know how to change the fonts in the INI, since you've had to do it just to run the configs in the first place.

And just to be complete, I have noticed that this problem with the menus is not SirFrederik's "fault" as such-- apparently he just took the same menu files from SiDima's previous Experience Leveling mod, and those were outdated already (I just checked). So it's an omission on his part that he didn't notice, but SirFrederik is not to blame that they were outdated in the first place .

[DarN]

It's the responsibility of the author to insure the files contained in the mod are up to date and working. These files are ancient.

holliberri:
If you see a line like this:

<font> 5 </font>	<!-- DarN 3 -->

This means Bethesda's original value is 3 - I changed it to 5. I reverted this change in v1.0 (5/5/2007). Basically any comment with my name in it is a change I made, usually with the previous value in there.

If you're using DarNified UI 1.3.0+ or DarkUI'd DarN 1.5+, you can set "_KCAS" to true in stats_config.xml. This will remove the level progress bar. I haven't made any settings for the skill bars though, as I didn't know about this mod until today.

I guess I could have a look at this for 1.3.1.

Edited by DarN, 22 March 2008 - 08:28 PM.

[Port_H]

My feeling about this mod:
I really like the concept -common to many RPG's- of leveling up once you gather enough Experience points (XP), which can be acquired by defeating enemies, completing quests, etc.
However, I would prefer if skills advance by using them, as happens with Vanilla Oblivion (although it could be modified by some mod that allows to choose a different skill increase rate, like OOO), but at the time of level up I'd prefer to choose what attributes to advance (including Luck). You had for instance 12-15 points to distribute freely among the attributes of your choice. However, at each level up, you couldn't give more than 5 points to each attribute of your choice (or maybe 1 point if you choose to increase Luck). Here is my suggestion for a leveling mod.
Since there are so many leveling mods, anyone knows if there is already any mod very close to what I described ? Thanks.

EDIT: Nevermind what I said above. That idea would result in a completely different mod than what is discussed here, it is not applicable to the present mod.
Come to think of it, Oblivion XP Levelling seems to be innovator to Oblivion not only because of leveling based on gathering experience points but especially because it eliminates the connection between skill use and skill advance. To remove this connection seems to be only way to prevent things like these: to let rats beat on you for awhile so you could get more Heavy Armor/Light Armor skill points; to buy/make a cheap spell and setting a weight on the 'c' key or just holding it down while you run around (example: keep casting a minor 'Restore Health' even when you're at full Health just to increase your Restoration skill; etc.