55 replies to this topic

[sajuukkhar9000]

The Emperor has a dragonborn lineage does not mean that all dragonborns are Emperors.

All the emperors for the past 200 years were not dragonborn.

[MasterAckrovan]

Hasn't there only been 2 non-Dragonborn Emperor's? During a period of which the Empire has been in decline? I don't think that's a coincidence.

[sajuukkhar9000]

Hasn't there only been 2 non-Dragonborn Emperor's? During a period of which the Empire has been in decline? I don't think that's a coincidence.

The new empire was started by Titus Mede, the person on the throne right now is Titus Mede II though it isn't Titus Mede's song but his like great great grandson.

[TheChampionofCyrodiil333]

Titus Mede's son is apparently called Julius mede

[thesapien]

It's not like Ulfric has any more claim by birthright, does he? His claim to fame and the throne is by beating the emperor in combat, right? Some say murdered. Either way, I'm quite certain my Dovakiin could defeat him in a shouting debate.

My Dovakiin is starting to consider rebuilding the Blades back to their old glory as protectors of the emperor/dragonborn, and guess who that would be.

Ulfric killed the High King of Skyrim, not the Emperor. The Dragonborn/Assassin has that privilage. As for Ulfric's legitimacy when he claims the throne, he's a Jarl by birthright, which means he has a legitimate claim to the throne of the High King, so long as the Moot agrees. Of course, when he actually announced that he'll wait for a moot he's already replaced all but one Jarl with his own supporters, and the one remaining Jarl swears fealty to him to save her own life so the Moot is nothing but a formality.

In terms of the Imperial Dragonthrone, Ulfric has no more claim than the Dragonborn.

As for the Blades, as much as i hate Delphine and Esbern for thier traditionalist, narrow sighted Dragon-Hate, the Blades usually did a much better job than the new guys...

Ooops, I do keep confusing those two.

[thesapien]

The Emperor has a dragonborn lineage does not mean that all dragonborns are Emperors.

No one is claiming that Dovakiin is emperor. We're exploring the idea of Dovakiin becoming emperor.

Most people want to argue based on what has come before. These traditionalists are the book scholars who think the only answers are those from their betters now deceased. I'm more of a radical. So is my Dovakiin. Plus, every other book out there seems to conflict with every other book. No one knows for sure what it means to be dragonborn or if there is a difference between being merely "dragonborn" and being "Dovakiin".

But riddle me this all you traditionalists:
If there were true Dovakiin before, why all the dragons coming back? Kind of seems to me that those dragons were buried without actually being dead. I suppose maybe we could say that killing the soul eater might then release those souls? Better not anyone kill Dovakiin then! Or that Alduin is a soul giver? But then he could just follow Dovakiin and resurrect again any dead dragons. So what is the answer, if there is one?

[sajuukkhar9000]

The Dragons were killed by the previous Dovahkiin and the Akaviri Dragonguard, they were dead and buried.

However Alduin can bring back their souls, it is speculated when a dovahkiin dies all his absorbed souls get freed for Alduin to put back into the Dov.

The dov were only defeated before because Alduin was trapped in time.

Edited by sajuukkhar9000, 16 January 2012 - 10:44 PM.

[faifh]

I too suppose, that when the dragonborn dies, the souls are free for resurrection again.

(like I also believe that souls captured and enchanted get to be freed, once the enchant is used up)

[Khorak]

The Emperor has a dragonborn lineage does not mean that all dragonborns are Emperors.

No one is claiming that Dovakiin is emperor. We're exploring the idea of Dovakiin becoming emperor.

Most people want to argue based on what has come before. These traditionalists are the book scholars who think the only answers are those from their betters now deceased. I'm more of a radical. So is my Dovakiin. Plus, every other book out there seems to conflict with every other book. No one knows for sure what it means to be dragonborn or if there is a difference between being merely "dragonborn" and being "Dovakiin".

But riddle me this all you traditionalists:
If there were true Dovakiin before, why all the dragons coming back? Kind of seems to me that those dragons were buried without actually being dead. I suppose maybe we could say that killing the soul eater might then release those souls? Better not anyone kill Dovakiin then! Or that Alduin is a soul giver? But then he could just follow Dovakiin and resurrect again any dead dragons. So what is the answer, if there is one?

Your 'riddle me this' question is answered in the main campaign.

The dragons are coming back because Alduin came back. Alduin had been blasted through time by an Elder Scroll at the end of the Dragon War, which is why there's a prophecy of his return; he was never dead. Alduin uses a soul snare in Sovngarde to consume souls, and with the power this gives him he can bring dragons back from the dead. He's flying around ressurecting dragons with a unique power only he posesses. Those dragons were as dead as anything else when they were buried, only Alduin could bring them back like that. And the Dragonborn is the only one who can kill them and prevent him raising them again, because the Dragonborn tears out their soul and eats it like a terrifying living soul gem. This is most certainly a fate worse than death since everyone in Elder Scrolls knows there's an afterlife, so being truly destroyed like this, while convenient to the mortals who want a dragon to be gone forever when Alduin is flying about the place, is probably why the last words of Mirmulnir are, "DOVAHKIIN! NO!"

For someone so quick to deride and sweep aside people who bother working out the lore based on....the books that are filled with the lore....it's an incredible facepalm moment that you asked those questions. Especially after you asked what the difference between Dragonborn and Dovahkiin is. There is a difference....the spelling. Dovahkiin is Dragonborn in the dragon language. There is absolutely no difference between the Dragonborn lineage of the Emperors and the Skyrim protagonist in terms of what being a dragonborn actually does for them. The only difference is that the return of Alduin means the Skyrim protagonist has dragons to slaughter and consume, which the dragonborn lineage of the Emperors did not. In the conversation after killing Mirmulnir, one guard even flat out calls another one an idiot for saying that the Emperors never killed any dragons, because there weren't any for them to kill and do all the Dragonborn things that come with that.

Riddle me this...how many dragons have come back to life until Alduin came back? That was rhetorical, the answer is none. Why on Earth would a dragonborn be running around to personally kill every single dragon when the Blades are killing them cheerfully enough? Endless piles of dragons have been killed by mortals, seemingly far more than Dragonborn ever got. The whole Dragon War goes by without any Dragonborn being mentioned at all, until it culminated in those Dragonborn-less mortals resorting to an Elder Scroll to deal with Alduin. Why, exactly, is it to be assumed that all the dragons Alduin is raising were killed by a Dragonborn and thus we should make up random nonsense about the souls being 'released' or whatever when a Dragonborn dies? We shouldn't. It's creating a question and problem that don't exist.

Edited by Khorak, 16 January 2012 - 11:14 PM.

[thesapien]

The Dragons were killed by the previous Dovahkiin and the Akaviri Dragonguard, they were dead and buried.

However Alduin can bring back their souls, it is speculated when a dovahkiin dies all his absorbed souls get freed for Alduin to put back into the Dov.

The dov were only defeated before because Alduin was trapped in time.

Okay, so souls are just absorbed and trapped within Dovakiin. The dragons still never die. This only last as long as Dovakiin is mortal. So when the dragonborn dies and his/her soul leaves, all the dragons' souls are released. But they can't return on their own without Alduin finding their souls and bringing them back. Is that about right? So, really, dragons can't die for real. They can only be trapped temporarily and somehow get lost or banished by Dovakiin. Or, am I still missing something?