LE Cast Spells without de-equipping weapon and shield

[Greytale]

Although we're all slightly de-railing things into "realism vs. MMO vs. _____"... I'd just like to add:

 

You don't have to "break" something like "dual blocking" by allowing it... you simply would make it LESS ADVANTAGEOUS to block with dual weapons.

 

I mean... look... you can already block with a 2-handed weapon. That is a very strong weapon, and yet--you can block with it. But it isn't as effective. PERFECT!

 

Why couldn't this be implemented with dual weaponry (single hand, single hand)? I can't see how one couldn't make dual blocking "weaker" than shields... just as it's been done with the 2-handed setup.

 

This is also why (to get back to the subject of the post)... I think it's a fair concept to suggest that spellswords who wish to cast:

 

* Should gain bonuses or take penalties during casting depending on the gloves / gauntlets worn

* Should gain bonuses or take penalties during "CHANNEL casting" through a weapon/shield... depending on the weapon/shield

 

I agree--it doesn't have to be REQUIRED... but... it sure would give you a new level of deciding to go "all, 100% mage... no weapon in hand, no plate gauntlets... NUTTIN' BUT MAGIC!"... or then finding the proper weapons and/or armor items that allow much less significant penalties.

 

I'll give examples:

 

PLATE ITEMS = Spells are cast with 50% efficiency

STEEL ITEMS = Spells are cast with 60% efficiency

LEATHER ITEMS = Spells are cast with 80% efficiency

Nothing / cloth = Spells are cast with 100% (normal) efficiency

GLASS ITEMS = Spells are cast with 125% efficiency, but with 10% increased mana cost

DWARVEN ITEMS = ... ... ... ... ????

EBONY ITEMS = ... ... ... ... ... ??????

etc.

 

It would just add another facet to the gameplay--allowing people to think twice about simply "going for the biggest, baddest suit of armor in the game".

 

I mean seriously... why ELSE wouldn't you choose to "tree up" heavy armor... "tree up" smithing for Daedric/Dragon stuff... and then wear it? It completely makes it POINTLESS to wear Dwemer/Glass/Leather, blah blah blah.

 

At least this would add some fun variety in spellcasting. I've seen this before, too. Many times--in games of old. I recall one which I can't remember the NAME of, but.. yup... if you wore heavier gauntlets/armor... your casting efficiency was pretty bad. That was the trade-off.

 

This was before mods of ANY KIND, btw. :) :D (I'm an ollllldddd gamer)

[Thoragoros]

Frankly, I hate Skyrim's magic system. It is cumbersom, tedious, and impracticle as a class choice. It is just 'not fun.'

 

Beyond Skyrim's magic being nerfed into dust, Oblivion -- which is half a decade old -- felt easier and overall smoother than the magic in Skyrim. Given that Skyrim is the newer game, it should be the other way around, except Skyrim sports some very bizarre design choices.

 

For instance, I'm in a battle. I've got several opponents running around me. I've got my sword and shield, I'm attacking and at the same time taking hits. To use a simple heal spell, I have to

1) Bring up a menu

2) Equip the spell

3) Cast the spell

4) Bring up a menu

5) re-equip my sword.

 

That five steps to cast a single spell if you're using a sword to attack and a spell to heal -- with two of those steps pausing the game.

 

Not only is that an incredibly annoying process, but using the menus pauses the game, interrupting the flow of the battle, whereas in Oblivion you did not need to pause the battle, allowing the battles to play without interruption provided you had your items hotkeyed.

 

How on earth is that an improvement over the simple hotkey system in Oblivion? :rolleyes:

Edited January 17, 2012 by Thoragoros

[Meester]

Id personally like to see a seperate button for spell casting and available while holding a weapon or shield. So for a flame spell the firebolts and flames would come from your sword and shield instead of your hand. Fully usable with block too. Edited January 17, 2012 by Meester

[WolfheartSpellbinder]

I believe I have a decent idea that can solve this maybe... but I have no idea how to make it happen (I'm not a modder). I got this idea while reading the replies here, and it came from those loading screens, remember the one that talked about dragons use their language as weapons, so a fight between 2 dragons may really be just a heated debate?

Well, my idea is that the game already has some magic that can be casted while holding shields and weapons, shouting. :D But it is somewhat limited as you only have the shouts that the game gives you. Well, how about since you ARE a living AND learning dova in the game, why can't you have some sort of shout creation in-game where it is somewhat like deep meditation and you choose what you want your shout todo, just like weapon/armor enchantments and then you meditate for say 24 hours, and presto, you have a new shout you just created that you can use...granted you would need to mess around with the shout sounds and do something to make them sound real. But all in all, I think it's a decent idea if done correctly, and it can still keep the game balanced.

[Greytale]

All good ideas! :) I think any way you slice it... the above comments about simply having bloody HOTKEYS for spellcasting (whether the magic system is overhauled, or turned into a version of shout-spells, etc. or otherwise).

 

Basically... one-key casting. At LEAST of destruction style spells for God's sake...

[xleileix]

I mean seriously... why ELSE wouldn't you choose to "tree up" heavy armor... "tree up" smithing for Daedric/Dragon stuff... and then wear it? It completely makes it POINTLESS to wear Dwemer/Glass/Leather, blah blah blah.

 

Armor rating in Skyrim is currently capped. This means you can't increase your damage reduction more than 80%. It is actually completely possible to reach the armor cap with light armor if you have the correct perks, enchantments and use potions when enhancing it. You don't even need a shield to reach this armor cap and so this obviously means that when you can reach the cap light armor is completely superior to heavy armor because you can actually run faster and become less encumbered, and are less easy to detect in sneak mode. You can increase your armor rating as much as you like of course, but after a certain point increasing it will have minimal to no effects (depending on if your attacker's attacks have an "ignore % of armor" effect).

 

Also, you *can* hotkey spells right now but the hotkeys are incredibly limited (numbers 1 to 8? Really?). There's a mod out on the Nexus that will let you add additional hotkeys. It certainly would be nice if they'd actually designed the game with the use of more than 8 actions in mind given how many spells, shouts, and powers you learn...or potions you need to drink. Ugh.

[xleileix]

Frankly, I hate Skyrim's magic system. It is cumbersome, tedious, and impracticle as a class choice. It is just 'not fun.'

 

And I completely agree with your whole post, very well put. It's such a pity because magic is an entire aspect of games like this. Yet another reason to turn my character into a melee/magic hybrid rather than going full mage... sometimes using magic is just too annoying to be worth the trouble... until these things are fixed, at least.

 

edit: Forgot to add, @Bayjell, the first person to reply to my post had the same idea as you, although they didn't put it as in-depthly. Good minds think alike? If someone could do it, it could be a solution...

Edited January 18, 2012 by xleileix

[Greytale]

@xilel... I understand about the cap, but... you have to consider that certain attacks or leveled characters can use weaponry or skills that surpass the 80% cap... so... in other words:

 

* If you're "at" the 80% cap... which is around 600 armor or something I hear...

* The enemy does a bash attack with a hammer, or... whatever--some kind of attack that somewhat "counters" or partially ignores armor...

* You can take more than just the 20% of damage

 

This is detailed a bit more clearly in the wiki files or whatever, the "official" guides, but... it just means that have something like 1000+ for armor is a good thing. :)

 

And I agree--I use only Glass armor and Dragonscale, myself... then again, I'm basically a "SpellSword", so I thought it'd be silly to use heavy armor.

 

As to the hotkeys... well, it'd be nice if you could simply "fire" a spell with one key. Not to have to lower your weapon/shield, press hotkey to get the spell and THEN press "left attack / right attack" to cast it. But I'm probably just asking for too much from Bethesda, lol... (aka one key, one press, one shot fired).

[xleileix]

Yes, like I mentioned I'm aware of the attacks that bypass armor so obviously you have to get above the cap to max out using light armor. I just wanted to say it was completely possible to be as effective (if not more) in light armor once your character is high-level. It seems heavy armor benefits lower characters much more until then, but once you get to there the choice is light. Right now I alternate or wear a mix as I haven't decided to dedicate to one armor type with my perks yet. If a dungeon is too difficult wearing minimal or light armor then I lower the difficulty or try strategies that involve kiting, sprinting, vanishing, sneaking etc to keep the enemy at range. My worst enemies are other mages. Somehow, the Skyrim NPCs are able to cast spells much more efficiently than us.....

 

And I see what you mean about hotkeys, it's basically what I'm asking for as well. Magic users are always going to be more vulnerable than heavy melee and tank type characters so it's just awful that changing spells is so slow and clunky (making you even more of a target). I 100% agree with the system you suggest.

Edited January 19, 2012 by xleileix

[Soltis]

Blah blah blah . . .

 

Look, discussing realism in a game which permits magic casting, fire shouting, dragons, and giant walking cats from "Elsewhere" is kinda, well, utterly missing the point.

 

The point is that navigating the menus in Skyrim every three seconds to change between sword and spells is a pain, and anything which makes combat more natural and flexible than the clumsy train-wreck we have now is a gigantic blessing.

 

Hell, I'd personally take Morrowind's combat over Oblivion's (and Oblivion's over Skyrim's) -- but that's just because it's fun to cast "levitate" on a foe, lead them 2,000 feet high, and then dispel the effect. I'm only hanging around the modding forums now hoping someone can salvage this mess, but I really don't have much hope until the injector crowd gets their claws into the game's innards.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Soltis