72 replies to this topic

[Rennn]

The good news is, Japan now has (very close to) a true AI. The really awesome part is they made it look like a human rather than the standard 'box shaped supercomputer'. The really terrible part is that it'll run you a few hundred million usd. Not only that, but since it's a 'true' AI (or very close, it's pretty amazing), should it even be legal to sell it? Isn't this opening the door to an underground android slave market?

But anyway, in a few decades we'll probably start seeing really interactive intelligent AI in games. I'm just glad I won't be dead before it happens, short of a car crash or something like that.

Edited by Rennn, 11 March 2012 - 11:43 PM.

[sajuukkhar9000]

The good news is, Japan now has (very close to) a true AI.

no they aren't

[Rennn]

Yes, they do.
http://gizmodo.com/5...d-bot-youre-two

I have proof, you have none.

[meh12345]

I do hope you're not serious. Either way, "CB2 has taught itself how to walk with the aid of a human" tells you everything necessary about the story. It's a robot. A robot mimicing the human gait is no mean feat, but it's so far from being AI that I'm tempted to use the word ludicrous.

...

And back on topic, I've been playing around with some voice software and you can actually get pretty close to the original voice actors...

[landy8]

In case someone is still interested in the beginning theme.

Some of the moral ambiguities, though, are more disturbing...

I for myself find all that good-vs-evil idea quite... plain. At least. I mean, can you really tell which side is good (right) and which one is evil (wrong) in any real conflict? Take a Hundred Years War, for example. Which side was good (right)? England? Or France?
Well, if you think that the right (good) side is the one that has more "democracy" and the wrong (evil) is one that has more "totalitarism", allow me to remind you that in XIV-XV cc both England and France were kingdoms, and monarchy is a totalitarian form of government. If you like dem(good)-vs-tot(bad) conflicts - try Star Wars.
If you prefer that plain good-vs-evil thing - try DAO (Dragon Age: Origins). When I started playing it, I soon found out that in every case there's a good side and a bad side, well, in devs' opinion - and the devs' opinion is much like the one of old good Inquisition: almost EVERYTHING MAGICAL is evil (wrong), the Church is ALWAYS right (good). When I deciphered that system (and it was very soon - I started playing a mage that time) - I've got a strong wish to uninstall the game immediately. Well, I've finished it (ONCE), watched that scene of pathetic (and useless - Morrigan had a good option for everyone to stay alive) PC's sacrifice, uninstalled the game and threw the disk out of the window.
Quite the opposite was Jade Empire. Passed it a dozen times! I even tried to surrender to the Glorious Startegist once to watch the ending - guys, he really kept his word!

Yet you are forced to make the choice anyway, despite having no rational basis for doing so, because there is never an option to just walk away. Once you are foolish enough to talk to someone and ask the wrong question, a quest pops up and you have no right of refusal.

Not exactly. Well, sometimes you have no right of refusal in the dialogue, but you ALWAYS have a right of refusal by action. For example, when I first entered the House of Horrors (my character was a Nord warrior, siding with Stormcloaks, but generally avoiding the "evil" actions), and that Vigilant guy began to attack me, I quickly checked the opportunities (none except killing him), then I ALLOWED that guy to kill me (thinking WTF?! about the script and devs), loaded the previous save and next time told that poor guy inviting me into that house "sorry, no".
Another example - In My Time of Need quest. I asked that Redguard guys about their reasons, then talked to the girl (and listened carefully). All that case seemed shady to me, so I just forgot about it and let that guys (and girl) deal with each other themselves.

Edited by landy8, 12 March 2012 - 04:58 AM.

[meh12345]

I for myself find all that good-vs-evil idea quite... plain. At least. I mean, can you really tell which side is good (right) and which one is evil (wrong) in any real conflict?

The examples here haven't been quite that ambiguous. I don't think good/bad is really relevant anyway, the point is the lack of choice.

Not exactly. Well, sometimes you have no right of refusal in the dialogue, but you ALWAYS have a right of refusal by action. For example, when I first entered the House of Horrors (my character was a Nord warrior, siding with Stormcloaks, but generally avoiding the "evil" actions), and that Vigilant guy began to attack me, I quickly checked the opportunities (none except killing him), then I ALLOWED that guy to kill me (thinking WTF?! about the script and devs), loaded the previous save and next time told that poor guy inviting me into that house "sorry, no".

Using saves to change choices based on later information just isn't a valid argument in this case, in my opinion. You allowed yourself to be killed? Game over, all hail our reptilian overlords.

Like I said earlier, I don't really have a problem with that particular quest's premise: I accept that sometimes you wander into bad situations. What is inexcusable is that I can't for example just knock the dumbass out and then bash the door to splinters, if need be, to get out. Or if there's some "super magic barrier", tie the sucker up and figure out another solution in the meanwhile, by negotiating if necessary.

Edited by meh12345, 12 March 2012 - 11:33 AM.

[landy8]

Like I said earlier, I don't really have a problem with that particular quest's premise: I accept that sometimes you wander into bad situations. What is inexcusable is that I can't for example just knock the dumbass out and then bash the door to splinters, if need be, to get out. Or if there's some "super magic barrier", tie the sucker up and figure out another solution in the meanwhile, by negotiating if necessary.

Like I said earlier . The choice is not always in dialogue. Knocking somebody out and bashing doors is a choice by action. And you always have one. Not always completely fair. But don't tell me you start a new game each time your character dies!

[thompsonar]

I think the option of reloading a save is as valid as any, just as I have supported "tabbing out." It is a game after all, you're not going to be able to do anything you want. But using your mind (imagination?) you CAN do whatever you want. Take advantage of the game, reload saves, tab out of conversations, say your responses out loud. It's a single player game, even if the option you were looking for wasn't there, you still know what your real response was (and that's all that matters).

edit:
Off topic
About that robot in japan. Yeah "teaching" itself to walk is not "true" a.i. and it's not even close. Real A.I. that mimics our own minds is nowhere near possible, perhaps with new computing techniques and such it will be. But for now we cannot match the processing power of our minds. I'd say the computer that was on Jeopardy is more impressive that that robot. Looking like a person and walking like a person do not automatically make it a real person. It is a good step forward though don't get me wrong.

Edited by thompsonar, 12 March 2012 - 01:41 PM.

[landy8]

I think the option of reloading a save is as valid as any...

Agreed. And if you want immersion...
Dragons being the children of Akatosh have their own specific relations with time. Your character is Dovahkiin (Dragonborn). So he can have an ability to make minor time warps like that Mark/Recall spells in Morrowind - just he sets marks not in space, but in time. And he can return to any of that marks at any moment. Quite suitable for Dovahkiin!

[sajuukkhar9000]

Agreed. And if you want immersion...
Dragons being the children of Akatosh have their own specific relations with time. Your character is Dovahkiin (Dragonborn). So he can have an ability to make minor time warps like that Mark/Recall spells in Morrowind - just he sets marks not in space, but in time. And he can return to any of that marks at any moment. Quite suitable for Dovahkiin!

In the ES universe opening your item menu and it pausing the game is considered to be something canon.

Loading saves after a death is also considered to be something that canonically happens.

The ES canon pretty much lets you get away with anything.

Edited by sajuukkhar9000, 12 March 2012 - 03:06 PM.