142 replies to this topic

[lojack]

Are you all monkeys or something?

For a start this game works perfectly fine without any mods installed, the reason you're getting CTD's isn't because of a buggy game or Bethesda's laziness it's because you have conflicting mods not installed properly (since the game's update).

Quoted for truth, my emphases highlighted.



The game just reads plugins in a different order now. So all your utilities (BOSS, NMM, Wrye Bash) show one thing, when it's really another, since they aren't "aware" of the change yet. The official launcher works fine for ordering, so all you need to do is make that match what BOSS/you want it to be.

Still I can't see how that change will cope with conflicts inside BSA driven mods. On the other hand I have felt so deceived by all those changes that I'm willing not to go field test them. Let's hope the /data still have it's function of actually overriding BSA, for the way the Texture pack worked proved the system is... less than good and totally mod unfriendly.



I wish I had actual information about how the /data is treated nowadays toward ESP mods based on BSA works in the practice. At this point I believe you have a clearer vision about it than I have, for your mods are specially vulnerable to any mod editing things in cities unaware of it's presence. How such mods are expected to be patched to integrate with, let's say, Open Cities? I mean, to the WS version of it.



But, I got off topic, I don't expect an answer in this thread.

Check out my Updated BSAs Thread on BSF. Basically, they fixed the BSA issues.

so, just in case I missed it, SKSE is updated for this new patch (awesome) how long until NMM is updated and ready to go? If it already is, well, that will be awesome news! I would love to play tonight!

wrinklyninja is working on the BOSS API right now, I'd say it's about 98% complete (one unavoidable bug I know of, 2-3 avoidable bugs). I already have Wrye Bash working using it, minus the unavoidable bug. Once he's finished with that, I'm sure BOSS 2.0 will be released, I'll finish integrating Wrye Bash and release that (plus other bugfixes). I can't speak for how far along kaburke is, but the API is pretty simple, so I'm sure he'll be ready to put out an updated NMM around the same timeframe. I'd guess 1-3 days for the BOSS API to be finished (but don't quote me on that).

Edited by lojack, 01 March 2012 - 03:45 AM.

[saxster]

For those interested, there is a thread in the STEAM Skyrim forums that links to the 1.4.21 executable. I checked it and it's safe, but use your own discretion.

This got me back up and quickly running the way things were prior to the latest patch and that includes being able to use the latest Script Dragon and Skyrim Boost Beta.

I now have this executable backed up safely and will never lose it again.

Edited by saxster, 01 March 2012 - 03:41 AM.

[jonasl2004]

lojack - thanks for the detailed update! Very nice! I don't use BOSS. I just use SKSE with NMM and that is it. What is BOSS and if I'm running SKSE w/NMM do i need BOSS? Also, for the SKSE there was a SWEET youtube tutorial on exactly how to use it. Very helpful and I loved it. Is there something out there like that for BOSS? more of a visual learner what can I say! I just want to make sure I get the SKSE w/NMM working properly. Love my game and miss playing!

[waystedyouth]

Does all of this mean that once the third party mod managers are updated to handle the new load order mechanics that Steam Workshop and Nexus will be able to co-exist peacefully? There are mods that are mutually exclusive to both sites, and I hate having to worry about conflicts.

[Arthmoor]

I wish I had actual information about how the /data is treated nowadays toward ESP mods based on BSA works in the practice. At this point I believe you have a clearer vision about it than I have, for your mods are specially vulnerable to any mod editing things in cities unaware of it's presence. How such mods are expected to be patched to integrate with, let's say, Open Cities? I mean, to the WS version of it.

The simple version: Files registered in the ini load first. Followed by BSAs that belong to ESP files, in the order specified in plugins.txt. Followed by loose files in the Data folder, which override everything. As it should be.

Mods can edit all they want in the cities, chances are that 99% of them would only do so in the closed worldspaces where it won't even show up for Open Cities. Much like with Oblivion, I'm expecting to have compatibility patches become necessary once more city based content surfaces. Though I'd be a much happier person if folks making city mods kept OCS in mind since some things can be easily duplicated to the open worldspaces without much trouble.

[saxster]

Actually having loose files override everything is not as it should be. This makes creating different instances of worlds on the same machine a needless pain; where it used to take just one BSA, now it takes at least two to achieve the same effect. What we have here is just simply a clear case of Valve and Bethesda getting together and deciding what makes life easiest for them and the casual users without actually investigating how things have been used as they were by modders.

Simple example: I want to have an HD map for Skyrim for most of my characters but then on another couple of characters I want to have a completely different map. Where before I only needed to have one override via an .esp triggering a .bsa to override the HD map, now I have to have 2 different .bsa files, one for the HD map and one for my new world map, so that switching characters (and their custom load orders) delivers the map that I want to see for each type of world I am trying to achieve. Otherwise, I would have to manually remove loose files just to get my 1 .bsa to even function as a texture replacer for that particular "world" I'm trying to play in. Then I'd have to put those same textures back when I decide to switch. Yeah, that's not inconvenient.

Bethesda got flack for the HD Texture packs they released that used the .esp overrides for the .bsa files, and so now we all get to lose that useful function. That's my guess.

On the other hand, I may just try to never update Skyrim again, keep the functionality that works best for my needs and also lessen the risk of yet again having to adapt to game breakage. Time is valuable.

Edited by saxster, 01 March 2012 - 05:48 AM.

[chocolambot]

Can someone tell me when this will be updated in NMM?

[wrinklyninja]

Can someone tell me when this will be updated in NMM?

When it's done. I've put over 55 hours of work into this in the last 176. I also have a life that's no less busy than average, and I don't even own Skyrim. kaburke too is working as fast as he can to get things done. Please have a bit of patience.

EDIT: Lojack's estimation seems accurate. I'm hoping for sooner rather than later, but I can't say definitively.

Edited by wrinklyninja, 01 March 2012 - 08:00 AM.

[GhostRiderLegend]

id say the updae will not be out for atleast a month, when someone says they have a busy life it means they are going to take thire time in getting mods done, some mods even gets abandoned when this is said. ive seen this happen when deadly reflexes got abandoned long ago.

[jonasl2004]

wrinklyninja - lojack - Dark0ne - You guys rock! Thanks for keeping us updated and thanks for working so hard to get things "fixed" and "working" for a large number of other people.

Greatly appriciated!