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#41
beefsister77

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Itīs funny how everyone bitches about publisher platforms like Steam, GFWL or Origin but not even half of them know why they are ranting about it. Jumping on the collective hate train just for the heck of it. I have yet to encounter anyone who can bring up at least 3 reasonable arguments against it. I use all 3 platforms and I never ever have encountered any problems. And pulling DRM out of the ass as a negative is also just plain stupid. Itīs everyoneīs right to protect their property, with the huge piracy movement itīs also necessary. All these things donīt affect the game itself, the gameplay or the fun you can have with it. The game will still be the same.
And about those friggin petitions, they are just ridiculous. Mass movements with the goal to forcibly change mostly cosmetic and trivial things. Those people donīt realize they are interfering with an artists work. Like ME3 f.e., there was a writer for that story, he thought it up, spinned plot strings, created characters, dialogues, lore and expressed it in the way he saw it, including the ending. Now some geeks rise up and say "Meh, me donīt like ending! change it at once or Iīll never buy another game! blablacryrantbitch...". Seriously, storywriting is art and you donīt blackmail an author to write it like you want it to.
Itīs nice to see people standing up for something but itīs a shame when you see for what trivial s*** they do. Put this energy to something useful goddammit.

#42
amycus

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"Meh, me don´t like ending! change it at once or I´ll never buy another game! blablacryrantbitch...". Seriously, storywriting is art and you don´t blackmail an author to write it like you want it to.

um, am I suddenly blackmailing because I don't want to buy any more games from a company (not to mention that people aren't telling thee writers to suddenly do the popular indoctrination theory official, just changed from what they currently got)? And here I thought that was my own choice as a customer... I actually didn't get ME3 at all because I was already tired from their BS from DA2 that also had a single ending filled with plot holes where choices didn't matter, plus the game requiring origins (and yes, I will complain about origin's ToS). Is that blackmailing me blackmailing Bioware now?

Of course it is a bit funny that there has been such a debate about the ME3 ending when DA2 had the exact same problems. Only difference I can find between the two cases is that the whole DA2 game was a miserable mess, while people seem to agree that ME3 was really good aside from the ending.

And its not the amount of problems one has with a certain DRM, but what kind. Origins has a really intrusive TeS, and some people (though it fortunately works fine for me) have problems getting steam to work at all. I don't have any major complaints about GFWL, only that it slows up the start-up of a game, and that's not enough to change my mind about a purchase.

BTW, some mod authors don't want to upload their mods to the steam workshop because of their ToS (they suddenly own everything you upload there). Are they "blackmailing" Steam too?

EDIT: Here are not 3, but 10 reasons the ME3 ending was hated. Those who have actually played the game obviously knows it better than me who just watched the final cutscene instead of playing the full game:

Seems pretty valid points to me though.

Edited by amycus, 13 April 2012 - 04:05 PM.


#43
BeyondTom

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It´s funny how everyone bitches about publisher platforms like Steam, GFWL or Origin but not even half of them know why they are ranting about it. Jumping on the collective hate train just for the heck of it. I have yet to encounter anyone who can bring up at least 3 reasonable arguments against it. I use all 3 platforms and I never ever have encountered any problems. And pulling DRM out of the ass as a negative is also just plain stupid. It´s everyone´s right to protect their property, with the huge piracy movement it´s also necessary. All these things don´t affect the game itself, the gameplay or the fun you can have with it. The game will still be the same.
And about those friggin petitions, they are just ridiculous. Mass movements with the goal to forcibly change mostly cosmetic and trivial things. Those people don´t realize they are interfering with an artists work. Like ME3 f.e., there was a writer for that story, he thought it up, spinned plot strings, created characters, dialogues, lore and expressed it in the way he saw it, including the ending. Now some geeks rise up and say "Meh, me don´t like ending! change it at once or I´ll never buy another game! blablacryrantbitch...". Seriously, storywriting is art and you don´t blackmail an author to write it like you want it to.
It´s nice to see people standing up for something but it´s a shame when you see for what trivial s*** they do. Put this energy to something useful goddammit.


Steam is my favourite of the services but offline mode is broken if you don't have a internet connection from start-up. This makes it very difficult to play games but at least the games are dirt cheap to offset the inconvenience. The Ubisioft DRM is by far the worst of all. I am not sure if they finally changed it or not, as I have not used it since it made From Dust completely unplayable on both my computer and my brothers. I don't care enough about the game to sit through a 2-3 minute file synchronize every time I wish to play just to have the launcher break a week later and need to reinstall the game. GFWL requires you to do an additional sign in process every single time I wish to play a game. Origin had that computer scanning deal which could get you banned if they deemed some software on your computer could be used for illegal purposes so I skipped it completely. I highly doubt most people jump onto the bandwagon, there are reasons people dislike these services.

On the topic of GFWL and the Ubisoft DRM; they don't really protect anything, the only punish the people who get the game through legal methods. If someone pirates a GFWL or Ubisoft game they will just crack it and skip the ordeal to play vs people who want to use the games online functionality and have to sit through it.

I do agree that the petitioning is awfully silly though. There are many other causes more deserving of effort other than games. If there were 100,000 people who pledged to pay $50 for dark souls that $5,000,000 sum could have done a lot had it of been donated to a reputable charity.

*edit*
If you upload your work to the steam workshop do they really take ownership of your work? I don't like the idea of programs putting mods in for me so I don't deal with the workshop + I really like the nexus so I only upload here. That is a bit unfair that by uploading you loose ownership of you work.

#44
amycus

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If you upload your work to the steam workshop do they really take ownership of your work? I don't like the idea of programs putting mods in for me so I don't deal with the workshop + I really like the nexus so I only upload here. That is a bit unfair that by uploading you loose ownership of you work.


Unless they have changed it since I looked at it, it seems like they receive the rights to do whatever they want with any new resources you upload like meshes and textures. You still have the right to use and change them as you wish and credit your work in your own name, however they can then reuse your work for what they want without mentioning your name. That's what I remember about it, but you should probably read the workshop's ToS yourself and make your own interpretation.

EDIT: here, from their terms of service. Note that they may identify you as the original maker...

You grant to Valve the following rights, which Valve may exercise or not in its sole discretion:

You grant to Valve a worldwide, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, assignable right and license to (a) use, copy, distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, modify, and create derivative works from Your Contribution in any media, (b) identify You as the source of the Contribution, and © sublicense these rights, to the maximum extent permitted by applicable law.

With respect to Valve Games, You retain the right to use Your original work in the Contributions as You wish, even in the context of another game. However, this Agreement does not grant You any rights to Valve materials, and You may not make any use of the Contribution that is inconsistent with the rights You have granted to Valve herein. For example, You may not license the Contribution to a third party on an exclusive basis. With respect to Third Party Games, the end user license or subscription terms for the Third Party Game may provide to You or third parties different ownership rights and responsibilities for Contributions.


This means that they could theoretically port any uploaded armor mod there, and port it to the consoles as a paid DLC. Of course, you, the maker, won't receive a cent.

BTW, I bought "from dust" when it was on a 75% sale, and they seem to have changed the heavy DRM. Unfortunately, the game itself is pretty but boring. You are better of playing an old game like "black & white 2". Much better gameplay with only slightly worse graphics.

Edited by amycus, 13 April 2012 - 02:31 PM.


#45
BeyondTom

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That TOS will keep me from uploading to steam.

It is good to hear they removed the original DRM they had, because that was over the top. I couldn't believe I was waiting minutes per launch each time I wanted to play the game.

I always wanted to buy Black&White but have never gotten around to it. I will have to give it a higher priority on my extensive list of games to buy :laugh: .

#46
Povuholo

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It´s funny how everyone bitches about publisher platforms like Steam, GFWL or Origin but not even half of them know why they are ranting about it. Jumping on the collective hate train just for the heck of it. I have yet to encounter anyone who can bring up at least 3 reasonable arguments against it. I use all 3 platforms and I never ever have encountered any problems.


Well GFWL is known for liking to take your game hostage until you log in. In Bulletstorm, you can't reach the main menu without logging in to GFWL. Allow me to demonstrate my experience with GFWL in Bulletstorm.

I start up the game for the first time. The game states: PRESS START TO ENTER MAIN MENU. *presses* GFWL pops up its window with a sound and says: LOG IN TO GFWL WITH YOUR ACCOUNT TO ENTER MAIN MENU. *logs in* UPDATE GFWL TO LOG IN, TO ENTER MAIN MENU. *clicks update button, waits a few minutes*. EXIT GAME TO COMPLETE GFWL UPDATE. 'Urgh. Okay then, lets go to the main menu then so I can exit the-' LOG IN TO GFWL TO ENTER MAIN MENU.

*CTRL+ ALT+DEL*

That was the only way I could exit the infinite loop it created. Which is just terrible.

For some games it also hides your savegames from you as well, not allowing you to load them until you log in, or even save your game at all until you log in, and making them difficult to find on your hard drive. Which is annoying and unnecessary. And there've been reports of people's savegames randomly disappearing.

It's matchmaking service also isn't that great, most recent example being in Gotham City Impostors.

Sometimes it won't update properly and you have to download a manual update, or has other stupid issues. I actually had the problem of GTA 4 crashing on starting a new game several times, with no indication of what was the problem. When I used a plugin to disable GFWL it worked again.


Steam is superior to it in every way. Better matchmaking service, just one log-in moment to access all your games, no savegame encryption and no giant window pop ups that totally conflict with the style of the game's menus and UI (Batman Arkham City). Yes there's the little window in the bottom right, but it can be switched off, it's black, and it doesn't make a sound.

Edited by Povuholo, 13 April 2012 - 04:12 PM.





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