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What kind of spells do you want?


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#1
EnaiSiaion

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Spells in Skyrim aren't really very well implemented. There are point and shoot spells, more point and shoot spells, several useless ritual spells, mind control that tends to leave one guy alive and doesn't work at high levels, summoning and a whole lot of irritating short duration buffs.

I intend to fix the above with a mod that adds <sales speech> about ~100 new tactical, interesting, lore friendly and balanced spells.</sales speech> Midas Magic done right, essentially.

Of course I have my own ideas as to what needs to be done but I need to hear your ideas too! What is the biggest thing missing in the current spell assortment? Maybe you want pure illusion to be viable, or perhaps you want more variety in destruction spells, a battlemage build that isn't just regular melee with a bound sword or simply higher level runes. There can be a spell for everything, just let me know!

#2
ghosu

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I would love to see more "practical", brutal magic...some kind of blood/telecinetic magic to tear apart (not possible yet of course) your enemies. Imagine to lift up your foes into a storm of invisible razors and barbwire, maybe in combination with slow motion and fierce sounds, starting with a slightly visible shader effect that goes over into a blood storm when the bodies are cut into pieces.

Stuff like this would even feel better if it is only active when you hold the spell mouse button, holding your enemy with an invisible grip (like dragging bodies/items using the USE key)

My next char will handle magic so i have to try out Midas, no big clue 'bout this mode yet...i would prefer 10 EXCELLENT and DIFFERENT spells instead of 100 mediocre ones, i know that pure quantity always sounds awesome but it's pretty useless if only a few are really useable.

Edited by ghosu, 12 April 2012 - 11:45 AM.


#3
Jakisthe

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Duel wield any two spells and have them combine in a unique way.

...Course, that's also a TON of spells, but I've been spread sheeting it for a while :tongue:

Mostly, it's about making them DIFFERENT in application, not just different in effect. I don't want 5 spells which shoot a ball of different "elements", have barely different "status effects", or simply do more damage.

I want one spell which creates a boulder which can also be stood on to jump to new areas, one which lobs a blob of lava onto the ground and burns enemies/lights your sword on fire depending on who is standing in it, one which is a slow moving electric charge which chains between all enemies it passes by and which does triple damage in water, and one which shoots out a large ice ball, creating a wall of ice along it's path which can serve as cover or explode into damaging shards if hit enough with maces/axes.
Conjuration spells which call weapons down from the heavens, creating arcane explosions where they land and having attacks beyond just "use as a normal weapon".
Trap spells which can be upgraded into "turrets" or explosive decoys.
A spells which slows time in a bubble, allowing the player to jump on frozen enemy arrows for some extra height.
Telekinesis which doesn't just bring things to the player, but allows for their manipulation, like throwing a sword or duel casting it with conjuration to arm the summon with the weapon.

Stuff like that. All very...difficult to do, if not impossible :P

#4
EnaiSiaion

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I would love to see more "practical", brutal magic...some kind of blood/telecinetic magic to tear apart (not possible yet of course) your enemies. Imagine to lift up your foes into a storm of invisible razors and barbwire, maybe in combination with slow motion and fierce sounds, starting with a slightly visible shader effect that goes over into a blood storm when the bodies are cut into pieces.


Physics based offensive spells? Hmm... :) One could go the Mass Effect route of slam/throw/launch type physics attacks.

My next char will handle magic so i have to try out Midas, no big clue 'bout this mode yet...i would prefer 10 EXCELLENT and DIFFERENT spells instead of 100 mediocre ones, i know that pure quantity always sounds awesome but it's pretty useless if only a few are really useable.


Of course my big competitor is Midas, but it seems to go for a grab bag approach of "hey, I found a cool animation" -> spell. My USP is that each new spell should actually add something to the game beyond just another button to press that does the same thing in a different colour (or worse: some gimmick to cast in town and then forget).

The number 100 is just a random guess based on the rate at which things are going. For this reason, I'm pinging for the issues you and others have with the current spell system so I add spells that are actually needed.

Duel wield any two spells and have them combine in a unique way.


I don't have that in particular, but I do have metamagic effects that are precast or channelled with the other hand and alter spell effects. As in turn any spell into an AoE/PBAE/etc, add it on top of an existing spell or trigger it when a condition is met.

Mostly, it's about making them DIFFERENT in application, not just different in effect. I don't want 5 spells which shoot a ball of different "elements", have barely different "status effects", or simply do more damage.


+1. The status effect trap is easy to fall into. I've eliminated about 10 spells from my own collection because of this.

I want one spell which creates a boulder which can also be stood on to jump to new areas, one which lobs a blob of lava onto the ground and burns enemies/lights your sword on fire depending on who is standing in it, one which is a slow moving electric charge which chains between all enemies it passes by and which does triple damage in water, and one which shoots out a large ice ball, creating a wall of ice along it's path which can serve as cover or explode into damaging shards if hit enough with maces/axes.


Thanks for the ideas. :) There are some useful ones in there.

I do want to distinguish between complexity and creating gameplay options. That lava blob spell is essentially just firewall and a weapon buff mashed into one with a quirky way to cast it. Might as well just use firewall and add a weapon buff. The boulder one otoh does add new gameplay, as simple as the spell might be.

Stuff like that. All very...difficult to do, if not impossible


That's not really the point. It is possible to create an infinite number of spells besides the ones you mentioned. They just need to be the right kind of spell. This is what makes the difference between "just another crappy spell mod" and "the reference spell mod" and by Nocturnal I'll get this right.

Edited by EnaiSiaion, 12 April 2012 - 12:40 PM.


#5
ghosu

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Jeah, physic based ones would be fine...no big bling bling but fierce sounds and some kind of impact that feels "real. There are only a few games that deliver a believable feeling, there are many weapons in shooters that were pretty weak but i only used them because they had this powerful impact that just felt right.

Btw, Corpse explosion would be awesome as well or transform a living enemy into an organic bomb, when i just think 'bout the Chestburster in Alien or there are a few horror movies with melting bodies (jeah, i know quite impossible to mod)...but if you ask me most stuff would need new sound effects...real screams of pain and such things, most Skyrim screams sound like i stepped on someone's foot :D

Edited by ghosu, 12 April 2012 - 12:41 PM.


#6
EnaiSiaion

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Agreed on the "D&D" approach of spells that screw over a single target in various horrible ways. It seems more believable to have spells to melt enemies, turn them into bouillon cubes with razor wire or smash them into the ceiling than to just have an assortment of fireballs that are thrown at a rapid rate and deal minor damage. Baldur's Gate was a nice video game rendition of this: no wimpy 20% damage reduction, you are completely immune if you have the right spell and the enemy doesn't have the right spells to remove your immunities and bury you into the ground for a thousand years.

I decided each new spell needs to fall into one of three categories:
- Spells that are fun to aim (FPS spells - generally direct damage spells with quirky delivery methods)
- Spells that are fun to torment people with (RPG spells - polymorph, drop from sky, shrink, drown, physics etc)
- Spells that give you/the enemy stats that make gameplay fun (buffs and debuffs with interesting effects)

Roughly destruction will get the spells that are about aiming, alteration gets the magnifying glasses to burn ants, illusion gets the physics spells and mind control, conjuration needs to get more evil and dangerous in some way, restoration needs something entirely new because right now it is a depressing collection of heal spells and pointless duplicate anti-undead spells.

#7
yota71

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I will love much more sword-spell :)

#8
EnaiSiaion

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What is a "sword-spell"? Do you mean melee combat abilities, spells that shoot swords or things like bound weapons?

#9
yota71

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i will show you a youtube file for an example




Not the same because elysees already make that,

another example direclty from the nexus

http://skyrim.nexusm...le.php?id=14207

Is that the sword spell that i talk about :)

#10
Cowoner

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I think crowd-control spells are seriously lacking in Skyrim. Dragon Age would probably be a good source for new spells, I personally love the force-mage spells of Dragon Age 2:

Fist of the maker: Lifts enemies in the targeted area into the air and smashes them to the ground. (ignores armor)
Telekinetic burst: The mage summons a wave of telekinetic force that hurtles enemies away from the core of the blast.
Pull of the Abyss: The mage conjures a maelstrom of energy that draws enemies to its center while slowing them to a crawl.
Gravitic Ring: The mage redirects the gravity in an area to significantly reduce enemies' speed. The closer an enemy is to the center of the spell, the greater the effect.

These spells, especially the first one, give the feeling of being mighty. They are brute force, they don't have big visual effects but just grab your enemies and throw them around.

Others:

Cone of Cold: A cone of deadly ice shoots forth from the mage's hands to injure and slow opponents.
Crushing Prison: The mage traps a target in a collapsing cage of telekinetic force, inflicting a great deal of damage over a short time.
Walking bomb: The mage curses an enemy with an effect that turns the victim's own body into a weapon. If the enemy dies while the spell is still active, it explodes, harming all other foes nearby.
Stonefist: The mage hurls a stone projectile that strikes with massive force.

(Descriptions mostly taken from the Dragon Age wiki)

Suggestion: contact verteiron (http://skyrim.nexusm....php?id=4118075). He made the Ice Wall and Earth Prison spells which are unique and fun to use. Maybe you could start a cooperation on this project.

I hope you can live up to your expectations and I'm looking forward to your mod :wink:

Edit: I would strongly support yota71's proposal but I think this could be a mod in its own right if you create special weapons that cast these spells on weaponswing :thumbsup:

-Cowoner

Edited by Cowoner, 13 April 2012 - 11:43 AM.





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