Drakescale Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Yeah, I have to admit, I'm pretty nostalgic when it comes to Morrowind. It doesn't help that Skyrim uses a lot of the music from that game... I like your idea of connecting the tax collector quest to the Civil War in some way. Is the thief/murder a Stormcloak sympathizer? Sick of paying taxes while the Empire lets the Thalmor walk all over the Nord traditions? In Morrowind, the killer was a disgruntled Dunmer who thought the Empire was corrupt. Is it the same situation here?My thought exactly. As for the Falkreath quest... In my mind, the Jarl of Falkreath would already be aware of Helgen's destruction, but he might not believe that it was done by a dragon. The DB, Ulfric, Hadvar, and Ralof were the only ones that survived, and the dragon flew North from Helgen, so its not likely there were any eye-witness in Falkreath to confirm the dragon attack. Thus the Jarl of Falkreath would probably think Helgen was sacked by Stormcloaks, and would be anticipating an attack on his city. Meanwhile, in Whiterun, the dragon attack on Helgen was only a rumor until the DB talks to Balgruuf to confirm it, so its not likely a messenger was already to Falkreath. After the DB talk to Balgruuf, it seems logical Proventus would send him/her, since the DB is one of the only true eye-witnesses, and he/she is in a good position to convince Falkreath that the troops in Riverwood aren't staging an attack. Also, by delivering the message and acting as an emissary, its a good opporunity for the DB to earn Whiterun's trust, building up to the task of retrieving of the dragonstone. Let me know what you think though...1. Sending the db to carry a missive to Falkreath.2. Ascertain the fate of messenger sent to Falkreath. (Jarl business?)3. Ascertain the fate of correspondent sent to Helgen on the Execution.I prefer to stay away from the "plain mailman" quests, unless it's related to a chick wearing skimpy clothes, but that's just me :P As for the villages, I'll have to check out those Scandinavian names for ideas. Gudrun has a nice ring to it, but I almost think it sounds better for one of the Nordic barrows than for a town... What do you think? Its funny you mentioned adding lore-friendly stuff from Morrowind's great houses to the Dunmer town, because I had a similar thought. I think most of the great houses fell into ruin long before Skyrim, but there could be an NPC who is selling "antiques" from the 3rd Era. Bonemold armors, Indoril armors, etc. I was even thinking it would be cool to have a town somewhere along the Morrowind border that has Dunmer architecture, and maybe even a netch farm, but we'd need some people to help with models...I was thinking more like Whiterun ... Gudrun :P That aside, it's only been 208 years since Morrowind and besides House Telvanni (Distant Memories quest) there are no lore in-game/wikia/uesp that says anything about the downfall of other remaining Great Houses of Morrowind. The story could use House Redoran background for example, having their main capital in Blacklight, is more or less in-charge of defenses at the Vvardenfell-Skyrim border. I was thinking that majority of those herding Dunmer refugee would be from this house. Among them are mixed together Dunmer of the Great Houses with differing professions. The layout of the town you mention, in my perspective comprise of warn-out makeshift houses, a hall, an outdoor healing shack, blacksmith, stalls and in the center a temple (small shrine). On the outskirts, a few Skyrim Watchtowers (alike to Riften) with a copy of Degree of Monument. Just a thought :thumbsup: But like you said, we'd need modders to make the critters, armors and weapons :mellow: Edit: ps - Just got my copy of 3ds Max and currently in the process of learning but at the rate I'm going, it's pretty hard to say if I can contribute any time soon :dry: Edited April 23, 2012 by Drakescale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avenger404 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Funny you should mention that! I'm still working with FRAPS, so I'm working on one, and it should be out within a few days, depending on how easy it is to move my video clips to my computer with the video editor... Just so you know, my mod does have a potential quest branch in it, which would involve the Thalmor trying to resurrect the Dwemer. The idea I'm going for is 1 thalmor mage making Dwemer prototypes, which goes awry and the prototype soldier starts creating new soldiers to guard the Dwemer ruins. This is all I have so far for the storyline, but if you want to implement it to this collaboration, I'd be okay with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
behughes Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 This project is too ambitious because Skyrim is a fully voiced game. This would have worked fine with Morrowind which was not voiced much except for greetings, and fine with Oblivion which was broken so that no one was expected to have voiced dialog. But in Skyrim, if you edit the dialog of any NPC, for the purposes of changing the main quest, then you will have to redo the voice acting for every bit of their dialog just for the sake of adding or changing a few lines. If you changed the lines for 10 NPCs in the main quest, that could end up being hundreds and hundreds of lines of voice acting and all the audio editing work to fix the voice acted files and then all the CK work to deploy them and re-lipify them. It would be technically feasible to complete such a project, but the expected amount of labor hours required is daunting. I agree that its an ambitious project, but from the modest amount I've already worked on, its actually not as much work as you'd think to add voiced dialogue. In my first week ever even using the CK, I managed to change the dialogue and scripts, and even get my own voice into the game. If the voice-actor can serve as a decent ringer for the original, you only have to record audio for the new dialogue. The CK auto-generates the lip movements, so that's not too much work. Furthermore, most of the re-writes I've done so far, and those I have planned, actually make use of existing dialogue pretty well. I can't say it will be entirely seamless with the new dialogue, but I am confident it will be doable :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDragonEpmperor Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 this mod looks very cool to have and i can't wait to have it I have played though it... eh well allmost everything on it it will be cool to change a bit on the main quest thingie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThoseTolerableNoobs Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 This is certainly an ambitious project, and it seems like it would be incredibly complicated to implement short of the modders sitting down in a mutual location and sharing their ideas, and, naturally, that is neither possible nor reasonable. However, I did feel that SOMETHING was lacking in the main quest that prevented me from engaging, and a fix to the would be very appealing. Problems to solve would be the fact that the game is fully voiced, and dropping a VA mid sentence would be awkward, and that to fit this around quest objectives would be problematic. That being said, this does interest me, and I'd be happy to monitor the situation, and peripherally support you until these problems are solved. Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
behughes Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) As for the Falkreath quest... In my mind, the Jarl of Falkreath would already be aware of Helgen's destruction, but he might not believe that it was done by a dragon. The DB, Ulfric, Hadvar, and Ralof were the only ones that survived, and the dragon flew North from Helgen, so its not likely there were any eye-witness in Falkreath to confirm the dragon attack. Thus the Jarl of Falkreath would probably think Helgen was sacked by Stormcloaks, and would be anticipating an attack on his city. Meanwhile, in Whiterun, the dragon attack on Helgen was only a rumor until the DB talks to Balgruuf to confirm it, so its not likely a messenger was already to Falkreath. After the DB talk to Balgruuf, it seems logical Proventus would send him/her, since the DB is one of the only true eye-witnesses, and he/she is in a good position to convince Falkreath that the troops in Riverwood aren't staging an attack. Also, by delivering the message and acting as an emissary, its a good opporunity for the DB to earn Whiterun's trust, building up to the task of retrieving of the dragonstone. Let me know what you think though... 1. Sending the db to carry a missive to Falkreath.2. Ascertain the fate of messenger sent to Falkreath. (Jarl business?)3. Ascertain the fate of correspondent sent to Helgen on the Execution.I prefer to stay away from the "plain mailman" quests, unless it's related to a chick wearing skimpy clothes, but that's just me :P I agree that "mailman" quests are pretty boring. I'm worried though that looking for a missing messenger might be too similar to looking for a missing tax collector. There is a way we could make this more interesting though: Rather than just being a simple mailman, you're more of a "special emissary" from Whiterun. Proventus will mention Jarl Siddgeir's distrusting nature and suggest you find some means to "charm" him. If you talk to Farengar, he will offer a unique "charm" potion (fortify Speech, which isn't craft-able in the vanilla game) to help you. Alternately, a decent Speech skill, an Amulet of Dibella, or the Gift of Charity perk (if you give gold to a begger) will be sufficient. When you arrive in Falkreath, you fill find that Jarl Siddgeir is convinced the Stormcloaks are responsible for the destruction of Helgen and is already preparing a military response. You'll have to convince him otherwise by telling your story: If you mention escaping Helgen with Hadvar, he will trust you and listen. If you mention escaping with Ralof, he will assume you've joined the Stormcloaks and try to have you arrested. Perhaps an option to "brawl" the guard can be added; if you win the brawl, you intimidate Siddgeir enough to listen to you, but if you lose, you go to jail. There will also be standard persuasion and intimidation options. If you are arrested or otherwise forced to flee Falkreath, you will "fail" the quest. However Proventus will still give you acknowledge you for your efforts and give you the next side-quest. This solution may not seem entirely fair, as it somewhat favors players who choose to escape Helgen with Hadvar. In its defense, I think its realistic since Falkreath is a Pro-Empire hold, and it adds a bit of consequence to the decision without affecting the outcome of the quest too much. Let me know what you think... As for the villages, I'll have to check out those Scandinavian names for ideas. Gudrun has a nice ring to it, but I almost think it sounds better for one of the Nordic barrows than for a town... What do you think? Its funny you mentioned adding lore-friendly stuff from Morrowind's great houses to the Dunmer town, because I had a similar thought. I think most of the great houses fell into ruin long before Skyrim, but there could be an NPC who is selling "antiques" from the 3rd Era. Bonemold armors, Indoril armors, etc. I was even thinking it would be cool to have a town somewhere along the Morrowind border that has Dunmer architecture, and maybe even a netch farm, but we'd need some people to help with models... I was thinking more like Whiterun ... Gudrun :P That aside, it's only been 208 years since Morrowind and besides House Telvanni (Distant Memories quest) there are no lore in-game/wikia/uesp that says anything about the downfall of other remaining Great Houses of Morrowind. The story could use House Redoran background for example, having their main capital in Blacklight, is more or less in-charge of defenses at the Vvardenfell-Skyrim border. I was thinking that majority of those herding Dunmer refugee would be from this house. Among them are mixed together Dunmer of the Great Houses with differing professions. The layout of the town you mention, in my perspective comprise of warn-out makeshift houses, a hall, an outdoor healing shack, blacksmith, stalls and in the center a temple (small shrine). On the outskirts, a few Skyrim Watchtowers (alike to Riften) with a copy of Degree of Monument. Just a thought :thumbsup: But like you said, we'd need modders to make the critters, armors and weapons :mellow: Edit: ps - Just got my copy of 3ds Max and currently in the process of learning but at the rate I'm going, it's pretty hard to say if I can contribute any time soon :dry: I love your ideas for the Dunmer village. If you want, you can make this town your "pet" project. Perhaps you can draw up a rough sketch of the layout, and see where you might want to place the town in Skyrim. I think the best location would be somewhere near Winterhold, since that hold desperately needs more citizens, but that'll be your call. There's probably plenty of good real estate in Eastmarch or the Rift as well. If you're having trouble finding open space, UESP has a great map which shows every location in Skyrim: http://www.uesp.net/maps/srmap/srmap.shtml?centeron=Whiterun I'm also glad to see you getting in 3ds Max. You're a braver man than I :D Edited April 25, 2012 by behughes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakescale Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) Well, my idea is just an alternative to yours. While the tax collector idea will take the db around Whiterun, I was thinking more like having the db sent to ascertain a dead npc but since the idea of having db as an emissary, it very much pull the rug under my feet :tongue: This just crossed my mind when you mentioned it**. What if the quests were morally Grey instead of Black and White? Something like "no clear solution" kind of ending. At one side, you don't think a person did it, nor did the other due to the fact of insufficient evidence. Of course pc did all the investigations but the conclusion is the latter? I've played games that revolves around these (can't remember which :unsure: ), although it feels less fulfilling but it adds a little reality to it don't you think? Or if you disagree, the solution could be still be present but far down the road with another quest (unrelated). In addition regardless of the quest being completed, the pc could exact vengence/justice for the deceit. Tell me if I'm making any sense :facepalm: Replies to Proventus: I couldn't find sufficient evidence to convict any of them.It was A who murdered the tax collector (lucky draw, choices on a few people)Conditions: if pc stayed his hand, the quest is completed but finding evidence will give the pc a sense of "closure". Confront or leave it be but I doubt anyone would do that.f pc chose wrong, the quest is completed but the family of the deceased will send thugs/mercs pc way. pc will still be able to find the evidence and confront.ConfrontMurderer: So you found out about it then. No choice. You need to die! (item trigger: writ doc.) ~Cheers Edited April 26, 2012 by Drakescale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YsmirNord Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Maybe you can include this mod: Whiterun Outskirts Market Ask to the author if you can relocate it to your new village. That would pretty awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
behughes Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 Maybe you can include this mod: Whiterun Outskirts Market Ask to the author if you can relocate it to your new village. That would pretty awesome. That mod looks great, thanks for posting. I'm actually reworking my original idea, so I might be able to work this in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
behughes Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 Just a small update... I'd like to formally announce our new team members, LittleBaron and TheCommonerPrince. Welcome to the project! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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