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Brynjolf, Vex, Karliah -- custom spouses and marriage options


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#1
kryptopyr

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I'm currently working on making Brynjolf and Vex marriable and may add Karliah as well. I'm not using the standard marriage quest but rather creating a entirely new, custom marriage route. I really want to have something more personal than the "Interested in me, are you?" dialogue.

I know that I'm limited by the dialogue available for these npcs, but nevertheless, I think I can manage to create something that will make marrying them quite a bit more interesting.

Given that I'm creating this from scratch, I can choose whether to replicate existing features or add completely new ones. Therefore, I'd really like to get a feel for what others think is important regarding marriage in Skyrim.

Given the nature of these characters, I'm probably not going to have a ceremony in the temple of Mara, but possibly something that involves getting Nocturnal's blessing or even just a simple exchange of rings & dialogue. However, if a lot of people feel that Mara's ceremony is important, I may change my mind and go that route.

Also, after marriage, what features and options would you like to see for your spouse? I'm definitely going to try to keep things true to the characters, so I can already tell you that Vex won't be making any homecooked meals. I also want them to be able to maintain their jobs within the Guild, which means including an option that will allow them to live with the player but travel to the flaggon and/or cistern during part of the day (only feasible if the player lives in Riften, though).

So what else would you like to see? What do you consider essential to a spouse? Any other ideas for features that could possibly be included that would be unique to these characters?

I can't make any promises given the limitations, both on the dialogue available and my own abilities as a modder, but as I'm still in the beginning stages of creating this mod, I'm happy to consider any requests.

#2
Monibulb

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I`m really glad that you`ve decided to make this mod! And as for the whole Mara situation, I believe that people who have played this game a lot are already quite sick and tired of the same ceremony all the time, so I think no one would be very sad to lose it. Also, at least in my case, my spouse tends to leave in the middle of the ceremony and all the people gathered there say the same line all the time, so it does get pretty annoying.

I really like the idea of Nocturnal`s blessing, it would be something definitely impressive. On the other hand, since that seems like a lot of work and may be even impossible, I`d suggest that if there was dialogue and exchange of rings, it could be something similar to what it was like when becoming the Guild Master. Basically, just the guild members gathering around or so. This might be a stretch, but maybe Karliah or even Gallus could perform the ceremony? After all, then all Nightingales would actually stick together.

I do agree that some of the usual spouse features are not all appropriate for Brynjolf and Vex. I`ve had a couple of ideas for them - it would be great if they could buy your items, or at least the stolen ones. Then again, I`m not sure if that wouldn`t mess with the follower options and in particular the "trade" option. Then, instead of the homecooked meal, what about some potions that they have "stolen"? It could be always the same one, or different potions. I like the idea of them going back to hang out in the guild, because it would make them at least look more active than just wandering around the house all the time.

Of course, I realize that I know nothing about modding and I have no idea if my suggestions are very hard/impossible, but I hope they would help you in some way. Can`t wait for the mod!

P.S. I think you should post a link to this topic somewhere in the description of the Brynjolf and Vex mod, so that more people would be able to see it and hopefully have some suggestions.

#3
kryptopyr

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I've always had problems with my spouse leaving half way through the ceremony as well, though I admit I've only tried it a few times and that was when I was testing my Thieves Guild followers mod. I'm glad that you seem to feel the same way about the ceremony. I've also gotten the same response from several others now, so I'm definitely going to go with a non-Mara wedding. I might try to do something in the center of the cistern, but I've not attempted to construct a scene yet in the CK, so we'll see how it goes. If I can't get a full scene working, then most likely it will be a private exchange of rings & proposal/acceptance dialogue.

I like the idea of doing something with similar benefits to the homecooked meal without it being a homecooked meal. I do like the idea of making them fences, particularly Vex who already buys at least some items from you during certain quests. However, I'm not sure if it's possible to get them to buy items without also selling them, and I just don't really see them as vendors or traders...they already have jobs running the Guild, dealing with clients, and recruiting/training new members. I haven't really done anything yet with merchants, so I'll have to look into this.

Thanks for your input! Hopefully, I'll be able to pull this all together.

#4
SwordMaiden41

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I definitely agree as well that a non-Mara ceremony would be best for all three, and really like the idea of something in the Cistern or along those lines. Something similar to the short and sweet ceremony for becoming the Guild Master. Are we looking for possible different options for all three, or sort of a compromise "umbrella" idea that would fit them all? I think if we're looking for an overall idea that the Cistern would be best. Just wondering as far as brainstorming, but here are a few thoughts off the top of my head.

Especially with Brynjolf as he specifically makes a comment (I believe right before becoming a Nightingale) saying something to the effect of "Why me? I'm not religious" so the Mara ceremony would go directly against his character. As far as the "Cistern" idea for him, my first thought (and maybe most fitting?) is to have Karliah come to the Cistern and do the honors, and tie in a little "Nightingale"-ness to it. Another thought too could be Delvin perhaps since he sure seems to have been all over the place, I wouldn't be surprised if he had some experience being in disguise as a priest sometime in his past :tongue: Maybe Delvin do some sort of "short and sweet Thieves Guild wedding" and Karliah steps up and says a few words as a sort of blessing of the Nightingales. Though I'm not sure how that would work with any custom audio for Delvin, I have no experience in that part of modding and am just brainstorming as far as the story/characters go. Just having Karliah do it would be simplest I'm sure.

And probably the same for Karliah, except to be done by Brynjolf instead. Though if we are looking for possible unique ideas for each she strikes me as more of a secretive/reclusive type to me with being so used to it after 20 years and staying alone at the hall. Maybe even something really small just you, her, and Brynjolf at Nightingale Hall.

Vex strikes me as the type to say "Ok, ok, enough with the words! Just give me the ring already!" :biggrin: And would probably be pretty fitting with a small Cistern ceremony as well. Could give it a bit of a comedic feel if Delvin did it since the two of them give each other a hard time as it is back and forth in the Ragged Flagon, but Brynjolf would be just as good as well, and probably easier.

It would definitely be cool to be able to use them as fences on the go or right there in your house. And to help prevent the "traditional vendor/trader" feel maybe rather than give them the usual "What would you like to sell?" dialogue, something along the lines of, "Anything you'd like me to pass on to Tonilia on my next visit?" sort of thing. To give it that feel instead since there are already ideas to have them take trips to the Cistern to keep up their Thief-y duties. Though I know that may seem a little backwards, just they'd just sort of pre-pay you for the merchandise and then get the same amount back when they do "pass it on". No win no loss. If that makes sense, just a quick idea.

I really like the idea too of a Thief-themed "Homecooked meal" option. I think a sort of potion is a great idea! I had been thinking maybe even gems, but if you have the Berenziah quest completed you'll have gems coming out your ears as it is.

Just some quick thoughts, and I'm sure whatever is done will be great!

#5
kryptopyr

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I'd prefer something that would work for all three, possibly with some variation, but the more I can replicate the easier it will be for me. The dialogue will definitely be different for all three, but if possible, I'd rather have the scene/process involved in getting married similar for all three of them.

Delvin probably has the fewest dialogue responses of any of the custom NPCs I've worked with. I'm not sure it would be possible to do much with him if it's going to be voiced. And similarly, I'm worried that there aren't enough voice options to do what I'd like.

Which I guess brings up another question...how important is it that the dialogue be completely voiced? Obviously if I don't attempt to stick with the voice files, it opens up the conversation options considerably.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! It seems that we have similar thinking on a lot of things. I do like the idea of making the fence dialogue indicate that they are going to take the items to Tonila for you, instead of just being a merchant themselves, which seems more in line with their roles.

(Sorry for the late response. I've been swamped with work this past week.)

#6
SwordMaiden41

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No worries! Life happens.

I figured that would be the preferred/best way to have the same scenario for all three. Definitely cut down on the work considerably. The Cistern would work brilliantly for all three I think.

I figured as much as far as Delvin and any custom audio, he is rather quiet. Like I said I was just coming up with ideas based on story rather than the technicalities and whatnot.

Having the fully voiced dialogue definitely does add to immersion, but I don't think its necessarily needed. Maybe a compromise would be something similar to an MMO-like style where when you talked to an NPC, they would say only the first sentence or so of whatever it was they had to say and the rest you had to read for yourself. So something similar could be done here. Like having it be, "We are gathered here today to bond these two thieves together. Do you (blank) take (blank) to walk in the shadows, watch each others back (etc etc)?" Voice over the italicized sentence, and the rest be in the subtitles. Not those words of course but the idea. Just a quick thought for some possible middle ground.

#7
PCGirl

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I have already made a few suggestions on the actual site for a wedding, but to reiterate here, I think a service in the Flagon would be quite appropriate with a few decorations and, of course, friends.
I have tried the marriage mod from Steam several times now, and my partner always walks out before the service is completed, which really makes you feel sooooo special doesn't it? Can't wait to see more on this mod. Could you possibly look at doing something with Rune as a follower/spouse too? Another sexy Thief in my books.

#8
kryptopyr

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You can actually use the console to simply add Rune to the follower and spouse factions. He has the proper voice type, so just adding him to those factions will make him available to follow and marry. However, my intention is to eventually add him to my Thieves Guild Followers mod, but I have this idea for a quest I want to make that deals with Rune's past, which is why I haven't already added him to the mod. Currently Rune's quest is 3rd on my modding to-do list (behind finishing Riftweald & making marriage options for Brynjolf & Vex).

#9
PCGirl

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After marriage options - hmmm, why can't they live at the Guild, there are plenty of mods out there that add a Guild Masters Quarters to the game that work perfectly fine (I have used them). I have been able to get Brynjolf to accompany me to all of my homes so far and he will stay there until I tell him we are moving back to his old home, the Guild. It is certainly a lot nicer to have him with me as much as possible since I spend so much time on the damned road - not great for any marriage........I haven't tried to have him come into the summoned tent yet, but it is follower friendly, so I don't see why not. I'll let you know if it works.

Brynjolf could continue to run things while the player is off fighting dragons, and I think there should be some acknowledgement from the other players about being Dragonborn, since they have followed on various occasions I am sure that they have seen it with their own eyes.

I thought if you did something in the center of the Cistern maybe a nice little gazebo or something along those lines for the actual service. I also really liked the idea of having Karliah or Devlin perform the service. I don't think Vex is one to wear a wedding ring, so maybe something else for her as a token. Brynjolf, I think a ring would be fine, but also maybe an amulet or matching amulets for the bride and groom. As far as attire, I don't see either one wearing wedding garb, so maybe a something along the lines of what Bryn was wearing when you first meet him the market????

So many options, so many ideas GOOD LUCK - can't wait....

#10
kryptopyr

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Oh, you've just given me a great idea... There's a particular voice file that Brynjolf has that I think would be awesome to show he recognizes the player as Dragonborn. I hadn't thought of using it in that way, but it's perfect! :biggrin: I'm not sure about the others, but I'll see what I can do.

As far as living in the Guild, I do agree that it should be an option. However, I think that to incorporate Guild Master quarters from other mods might be difficult. I'd either have to create my own Guild Masters quarters or somehow find a way (and get permission) to merge someone else's mod into mine. I'm not sure how else to do it. If I was married and living in the cistern, I know I'd at least want to have a double bed and have my spouse choose to sleep there rather than in their own single bed, which is what I assume would happen if you told Brynjolf to go back to the Guild. He doesn't sleep in the Guild Master's quarters, right? I don't think you can make one mod alter another, so I can't have my mod instruct him to sleep in a room that was added by another mod. And Vex doesn't even have a sleep package, so that's another thing I've had to add.

I do have plans for future mods that would do a lot of upgrading to the Guild, Flagon, and Ratways, and I think some sort of living quarters for the leaders of the Guild would be appropriate. I'm actually thinking all four leaders need to have separate quarters from the others. If for no reason other then to help enforce their status among the group. I'd like to give Vex and Delvin more varied schedules, so they at least get to sleep some. However, I will probably try to get the marriage mod released before I start working on these changes. It's a feature I would like to add later, but to start I'm primarily focusing on Honeyside and Riftweald (I've completely fallen in love with Riftweald as a home, and it will probably get some special attention just because I'm so biased towards it).




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