10 replies to this topic

[Chesko]

• Starting to settle up details on the new campfire system. Some details aren't completely worked out yet. This is the one feature that has put me through the most hair-wringing trying to balance and get right. Here are the things I'm thinking about:

There will be two campfire modes that you will be able to select between: "Classic" and "Immersive". (The Lite and Classic presets will use Classic campfires, whereas Hardcore mode will use Immersive campfires (naturally)).

Classic

• Use the new "Build Campfire" power to invoke a transparent fire ring that moves where you look. When you're happy with the placement, click it and 5 firewood will be subtracted from your inventory and the campfire will be built. It will start lit if Manual Lighting is Off. If you don't have 5 firewood, you can't use the power. Your campfire will last 6 hours.

So, basically, Classic will work just like Fire Kits do now, except the cost has been increased from 3 to 5. Wood harvesting will be adjusted upwards as needed.

Immersive

• Use the new "Build Campfire" power to invoke a transparent fire ring that moves where you look. When you're happy with the placement, click it. An empty fire circle will be built, and a container menu will automatically open, allowing you to place in it items that you would like to burn. Firewood, clothing, books, and other miscellaneous flammable items will count as fuel.
• You must have 10lbs. of fuel to light a campfire (tenatively).
• When you exit the menu, all items you selected will be dropped into the fire circle. The fire will start automatically if Manual Lighting is Off.
• Fire will output different amounts of heat and light depending on the amount of fuel (in weight) is on the campfire. A campfire will /always/ stop exposure gain, no matter how small it is; it's just a question of how quickly. They are ranked as follows:
• Roaring: at least 40lbs of fuel. Reduces exposure by 2.0 / second, and casts a very wide light.
• Blazing: at least 30lbs. of fuel. Reduces exposure by 1.5 / second, and casts a wide light.
• Crackling: at least 20lbs. of fuel. Reduces exposure by 1 / second, and casts moderate light. This is the current amount that Fire Kits restore in terms of Exposure Points.
• Flickering: at least 10lbs. of fuel. Reduces exposure by 0.5 / second
• (Smoldering): A decayed Flickering campfire. Cannot be built directly. Emits a faint amount of heat, smoke, almost no light, and won't dry you off when wet. Reduces exposure by 0.25 / second. To move from Smoldering to Flickering, you must supply the 10lbs fuel minimum again. So if your fire is still lit, it's a good idea to try to keep it lit.
• Campfires will burn through 5lbs of fuel per hour. A roaring fire will last 8 hours, for instance. What this means is that if you get a good 6 - 7 hours sleep near a roaring fire, you will wake up to a fire that is flickering or smoldering faintly, which I think will be really cool and immersive.

All of these numbers are subject to change as I continue to balance and tweak.

• I will be expanding the number of things you will find when using Wood Harvesting. Long, straight logs will be used to construct things like Tanning Racks and chairs.

• I am considering adding a new power to allow you to collect deadwood. The truth of the matter is that, when someone goes camping, if one does not have an axe, it is possible for them to acquire fallen dead wood to start a fire. Collecting enough of this kind of wood may prove to be problematic however. If I do implement a system such as this, it will be more as an emergency use power. It may help you shore up the remaining few pounds to get a fire going with other items you may have (books, and so on) to meet the 10lbs. weight minimum to start a flickering campfire. Good luck keeping this going in the snow and the rain!

• Speaking of snow and rain: I am working on doing something more interesting when using campfires in these conditions. I haven't worked out the details yet. They might be harder to manually light, or might not burn as long.

That's it for now. Back to work.

[TitanZ]

Looking good, Chesko. I really like how you have Dynamic Campfires setup with the ability to burn other flammable items and how fires will degrade over time.

The plan for expanding wood harvesting is very interesting and reminds me a bit of a mod for Oblivion called Craftybits, where you could craft poles, arrow shafts, even canoes, all right in front of you without menus, but unfortunately it never made it out beta.

As far as the power to collect deadwood, in all reality deadwood should be the primary source of fuel in the wild, or at least as a firestarter. Wood that has been just felled and split is not good for burning because it is too green, wet, full of sap and makes for a hard to light, horribly smoky, low-heat fire. Good for keeping bugs away or signaling if you're lost, but not for heating and cooking. If you're freezing and need to get a fire going quickly, deadwood is the way to go. Maybe requiring a source of tinder and/or deadwood to get a hot fire going in order to effectively burn green wood would work. Or, maybe I am making this entirely too complicated and just have to make some assumptions.

Keep up the great work. I am eagerly awaiting Last Seed and Hearthfire. Your mods have made my Skyrim experience so much more enjoyable. Thank you!

[natasja186]

This all sounds absolutely amazing! I'm so looking forward to the completion of this and your other mods (Last Seed and Hearthfire). Also very attentive of you to give regular news on your progress. Thumbs up and keep it on!

[dean1012]

Does this mean you plan to add chairs, tanning racks, and other things to the list of things we can craft out in the wilderness using your mod?

Everything sounds amazing at this time.

[Vladykin95]

Chesko, can you send me a beta version of its plug-in, when you decide that working with the text is finished? So I had time to prepare a translation in one day with the release of version 1.6.1

Edited by Vladykin95, 15 July 2012 - 02:04 PM.

[zeromus88]

The amount of time and thought you've put into this is amazing. Even though it'll make the experience even harsher, I'm looking forward to this update more and more.

[Chesko]

@zeromus88 - Thanks! And the goal of Dynamic Campfires is not to make it harder; just to give you more power. But many expressed that they would like to just keep things simple, so Classic Campfires are still an option (and will be on by default).

@Vladykin95 - I'll keep you posted.

@dean1012 - that's the plan, yes.

[Chesko]

@TitanZ - I had posted a lengthy response to your post but for some reason Skyrim Nexus decided to eat the comment.

Basically my post was: Yes, you're right on all counts. Dead wood / dry wood / dry, seasoned wood is much, much more preferable to green wood in the outdoors. Green wood is smokey, heavy, and difficult to light. The problem stems from trying to build a survival-based gameplay element, and the #1 consideration when making a survival-based gameplay element is scarcity. So, the woodcutter's axe is currently the limited resource, since it will have durability and can only harvest so much wood at once.

So the model of reality has to be simplified for gameplay purposes; "wood burns and makes you better off."

I can't think of a suitable, believable way to limit how much deadwood the player would be able to gather at one time. Perhaps a factor could be time. As in: with an axe, you can harvest enough wood to make a fire in one hour. Gathering deadwood, you may have to make several attempts, each at one hour. If your Exposure rises above 80, I won't let you gather firewood at all, since you wouldn't likely survive the attempt, it would take too long. So perhaps using an axe could give you the significant time advantage when in very cold places? Does that make sense?

[Chesko]

For what it's worth, that's the direction I ended up going for dead wood harvesting. I've moved Wood Harvesting to its own power. Equipping an axe will no longer invoke the ability. When you use the new power, you will be given the option to harvest firewood or deadwood. Harvesting firewood will also net you timber, which will be used for building things. Using the power makes 1 hour pass in-game. You will gain exposure during that hour (in today's terminology, you will lose EP) depending on the temperature due to time passing. If you don't have an axe, you won't be given the option to harvest firewood. The yield result for deadwood will also be highly variable, so you may need to use it more than once to find enough wood for a fire. And if your Exposure is 80 or higher (in today's terminology, if your EP is 20 or less), you can't use this power because you don't have enough time. So an axe is going to net you more wood faster, as well as the wood required for building. A deadwood campfire will also have its own unique graphics compared to a firewood campfire.

Edited by Chesko, 15 July 2012 - 09:46 PM.

[jjc71]

@Chesko: This is the one mod that I can't wait to have. I'll be a happy chappy when you release Chesko:)

Edited by jjc71, 16 July 2012 - 10:31 AM.