107 replies to this topic

[fraquar]

Stormcloaks win, simply because the hardest thing for any empire to do is to depend on local recruits to destroy a rebellion in their own homeland - which is exactly what the Empire is having to do. This is a Revolution, not a Civil War.

And yet, at the very beginning of Skyrim the empire HAD won, despite the challenges.

Problem in this scenario is there isn't much of an Empire left without Skyrim, which is plainly evident seeing as nearly all Imperial troops that are killed are Nords.

The Empire as we know it today originated in Skyrim under the Nord army of Tiber Septim. The roots were sewn in Skryrim, not quashed there.

It's in the Empires best interest to squash this rebellion quickly, which they don't seem to be doing. You bring in troops and augment them in that case. If this draws on it's as much because the Empire is weak as anything else.

Edited by fraquar, 29 December 2012 - 09:30 AM.

[UrgeNexus]

The Thalmor win. Bethesda has never established a hard canon ending to any of the TES games (Except Redguard, but you can argue that Redguard doesn't really count), the only exception is Daggerfall, where all 7 of the endings are true all at once. I don't see this trend changing, details of the previous Heroes and their deeds have always been shrouded in obscurity, which makes sense in a world where information is mostly spread through word of mouth. After Skyrim I imagine most Nords will say the Dovahkiin was a nord, whereas Imperials might say he was an Imperial. The Dominion might even spin some story about how the Dovahkiin was an Altmer and the regular peasant on the Summerset Isles won't have any frame of reference to refute that claim, he may not believe it if he doesn't trust the Thalmor, but he has no way of knowing either way.

Nobody knows who the Champion of Cyrodiil was, they know Martin saved them all. The CoC could have been literally anyone, all he or she needed to do was be in the right places at the right times and not get killed. Anyone could have done that and everyone who played the game did it with different characters. You can't have a hard canon ending to a TES game without compromising the freedom that is core to the series.

[Guy97]

What will probably happens, is that no matter the Dragonborn's choice, the Stormcloaks + Empire has to come together in Skyrim to defeat the Thalmor.

[RighthandofSithis]

What will probably happens, is that no matter the Dragonborn's choice, the Stormcloaks + Empire has to come together in Skyrim to defeat the Thalmor.

I think that, more specifically, the actual victor in the war will never be mentioned, and Skyrim remains part of the Empire (for unknown reasons, be it victory or diplomacy) with much greater freedom, similar to Morrowind's Armistice.

Or they simply don't mention the war. period.

[Scorch621]

I have a feeling that the outcome of the war will depend on future DLC's
Like how the CoC became the champion of cyrodill, perhaps the moot will elect you or someone completely different to become high king, and then the thalmor or invade or some such nonsense...

[Lachdonin]

My end-of-the-year prediction. Ulfric and Tullius both die, causing A; the Empire having to direct actual manpower to deal with the rebellion and B; the Rebels fracuring by hold and religating Skyrim to a region of infighting fiefdoms, similar to Highrock prior to the Warp in the West. With the Empire forced to commit ever greater military power to try and keep the province from tearing its self appart, the Domminion launches an invasion of highrock.

Enter TES-6, the PC a champion of Lorkhan/Talos destined to protect Ada-Mantia and the Zero Stone.

[Anime_Otaku102]

I think that, more specifically, the actual victor in the war will never be mentioned, and Skyrim remains part of the Empire (for unknown reasons, be it victory or diplomacy) with much greater freedom, similar to Morrowind's Armistice.

Or they simply don't mention the war. period.

Well, they can phrase it without specifically mentioning which side won.

"The Skyrim Rebellion ended with the return of the Dragonborn, who quickly ended the conflict and seized control of both Skyrim and the remnants of the Empire with the power of the Voice and several dragon allies. Thus the a new Era was ushered in with the dragonblood reclaiming the throne of the Empire."

So regardless if the Empire regains Skyrim or Skyrim conquers the Empire, the details will be lost by the much bigger deal of the Dragonborn usurping the Imperial throne and being hailed as the second coming of Talos. The conflict with the Dominion might also end at this point as well, either because they decide it would be a Bad Idea to wage war with an Emperor/Empress whose diplomatic options include stopping time, summoning storms, commanding dragons, and devouring souls ("Hostility? I was just making a point with a few choice Words. I didn't even raise my hands.") or they tried to invade any and got wiped out for their troubles; I can see TESVI revolving around the Dominion if it was the former, but it would have to be a new conflict if it's the latter.

[Lachdonin]

I personally hope they don't take that approach. TES PC's are better left to dissapear after their task is complete. The Nerevarine never tried to take the Throne of Morrowind (though he probably could, power wise, and Helseth wasn't exactly popular) and the CoC never tried to become Emperor. Both exited history when they were no longer needed.

The PC's are best served as short term decision makers, facing challenges like Alduin or Dagoth Ur then vanishing. The longer their story goes beyond the end of the game in question, the greater the risk of establishing a canon personality. If the Dragonborn became Emperor, Bethesda would have to make note of the quality of Emperor the Dragonborn was, solidifying who he/she is. This would invalidate the choices players made, if they didn't match the canon, and it's the historic ambiguity of the PC's which is the cornerstone of the "do it your way" mentality of the franchise.

[Anime_Otaku102]

I personally hope they don't take that approach. TES PC's are better left to dissapear after their task is complete. The Nerevarine never tried to take the Throne of Morrowind (though he probably could, power wise, and Helseth wasn't exactly popular) and the CoC never tried to become Emperor. Both exited history when they were no longer needed.

The PC's are best served as short term decision makers, facing challenges like Alduin or Dagoth Ur then vanishing. The longer their story goes beyond the end of the game in question, the greater the risk of establishing a canon personality. If the Dragonborn became Emperor, Bethesda would have to make note of the quality of Emperor the Dragonborn was, solidifying who he/she is. This would invalidate the choices players made, if they didn't match the canon, and it's the historic ambiguity of the PC's which is the cornerstone of the "do it your way" mentality of the franchise.

Hm, true enough, though they would still need to overshadow who won the civil war with something more historically significant. Maybe the Dominion just winds up steamrolling both the Empire and Skyrim regardless of who won (thus the PC's only contribution would be saving the world from destruction, which isn't a shabby thing to put on the resume) or one of the resurrected dragons takes over the Empire instead of the Dragonborn.

[Brutii]

I personally hope they don't take that approach. TES PC's are better left to dissapear after their task is complete. The Nerevarine never tried to take the Throne of Morrowind (though he probably could, power wise, and Helseth wasn't exactly popular) and the CoC never tried to become Emperor. Both exited history when they were no longer needed.

The PC's are best served as short term decision makers, facing challenges like Alduin or Dagoth Ur then vanishing. The longer their story goes beyond the end of the game in question, the greater the risk of establishing a canon personality. If the Dragonborn became Emperor, Bethesda would have to make note of the quality of Emperor the Dragonborn was, solidifying who he/she is. This would invalidate the choices players made, if they didn't match the canon, and it's the historic ambiguity of the PC's which is the cornerstone of the "do it your way" mentality of the franchise.

Just shoot it forward until after the dragonborns death and be careful to tread around any mention of his personality? The nerevarine was mentioned in oblivion, they said he left for akavir, they didn't mention why, just that he wanted to. I think they did that so that the player didn't just think 'Why doesn't that guy solve this problem' so why can't they do something similar for the dragonborn. So it's 100 years after the dragonborns time, or we only hear of the dragonborn giving written orders to the legion, with no clear explanation other than 'it's the only valid tactical decision'

Also, bethesda already seem to have canon for some of the PC. IE: The dragonborn is shown in trailers and all other merchandising as a male nord, so that's how I see him. The nerevarine is probably a male dark elf (Isn't he mentioned as a he in the passing comment from oblivion?) So why not just have the male nord dovahkiin leading the empire now that the emperor has been assassinated by the brotherhood?

The dragonborn should now take the throne, because while TM2 was a brilliant tactician, he was a useless politician. (he'd practically won the great war, or at least forced it to a stalemate, yet he pretty much surrendered. Useless )