59 replies to this topic

[Lachdonin]

And more of a curiosity than an irony, where do all these elven, orcish, and, especially, Imperial weapons and armor come from when you find them in ancient Nordic ruins that have never been opened until you unseal them, yourself?

With the exception of the Imperial, Elven and Orcish equipment makes sense, since both are rather ancient. Elven armour, in particular, dates back to the Aldmer, the now extinct Proto-Elves, which in turn pre-date, at the very leads, The Return.

[sinnerman69]

Not sure if this could be considered irony, but I had just finished the quest Ill Met By Moonlight and I let Sinding live and he said he'd stay out of public eye and live out his days in the cave where the hunt was, I fast traveled back to Falkreath and sinding in his werewolf form was coming out of the guard barracks and the orc dawnguard was near by and Runil the priest walked right by him, nobody in Falkreath would attack sinding!..

[Moraevik]

And more of a curiosity than an irony, where do all these elven, orcish, and, especially, Imperial weapons and armor come from when you find them in ancient Nordic ruins that have never been opened until you unseal them, yourself?

With the exception of the Imperial, Elven and Orcish equipment makes sense, since both are rather ancient. Elven armour, in particular, dates back to the Aldmer, the now extinct Proto-Elves, which in turn pre-date, at the very leads, The Return.

I know that, but you'd think that the design of said equipment would evolve over a period of hundreds of years. Ancient Elven and ancient Orcish armor would be different in appearance from their modern counterparts. Besides, at what point did the Altmer, Dunmer, and Orsimer diverge from the Dwemer? It is pretty forthrightly stated by Septimus Signus that the Dwemer are the forbears of the other elven races. There should be a point in history at which the only elven race is the Dwemer if he's right, and he must be right because it's possible to complete the quest "Discerning the Transmundane". On the other hand, I'm hardly an expert on Tamriel's history, so I could be way out in left field on this one. On yet the other hand, if I'm right then I think it's a huge irony that Bethesda got it wrong in their own game.

[BrettM]

Besides, at what point did the Altmer, Dunmer, and Orsimer diverge from the Dwemer? It is pretty forthrightly stated by Septimus Signus that the Dwemer are the forbears of the other elven races.

I think you're misinterpreting the point of collecting all the blood. The Aldmer are the common ancestor of all the mer races, including the Dwemer. Each race has a certain subset of genes from that common source, and those subsets have a certain amount of overlap between different races. By combining the blood of the other races, you get a mix that allows Septimus to select a subset that matches the Dwemer subset closely enough to open the box. The other races are "brothers" to the Dwemer, not descendants of them.

For example, say Dwemer and Bosmer share gene A because both races received it from the Aldmer. Then suppose that Dwemer and Falmer share gene B but not gene A, and Dwemer and Dunmer share gene C but not A or B. By mixing the blood, you get a full set of A, B, C that could not be provided otherwise by any single race except the Dwemer.

[IsharaMeradin]

My most ironic moment...

In one game, I decided to stop reloading saves and trying to keep Lydia alive so I left her dead and floating in Smugglers Den. After that I needed someone else. I stumbled across Uthgerd the Unbroken who after a fist fight was willing to join me. However before doing so she said something about wanting to see how I could handle a few trolls.

Not much later we were in the Northern reaches somewhere and encountered a Frost Troll.

Can you guess what happened?


She never got to see how I could handle that troll. For she herself could not handle it.

[Moraevik]

(BrettM): Gotcha. That makes sense, but the way Septimus goes on about this the only way I can interpret it is that he believes the Dwemer are the ancestors of all the elves because he thinks that only a combination of all their blood can recreate the original Dwemer qualities that are needed to unlock the box. I guess I'm too much "in the game" at that point, and I should know better. I have college training in population genetics -- not that the Bethesda developers have a shred of a chance at having actually thought of it in these terms, of course.

[Lachdonin]

(BrettM): Gotcha. That makes sense, but the way Septimus goes on about this the only way I can interpret it is that he believes the Dwemer are the ancestors of all the elves because he thinks that only a combination of all their blood can recreate the original Dwemer qualities that are needed to unlock the box. I guess I'm too much "in the game" at that point, and I should know better. I have college training in population genetics -- not that the Bethesda developers have a shred of a chance at having actually thought of it in these terms, of course.

Also bear in mind that Septimus is absolutely bonkers. Genetics also doesn't really play much of a role in a world where you have, quite literally, magic, gods, and spient trees who straight up create you out of a swamp.

IF we assume Septimus knew what he was going on about, i think his practice was more along the lines of; We know all Elves are decended from the Aldmer. There are no Dwemer left, but if you can recreate Aldmeri blood (by combining the like characteristics of the blood of other Mer) you ahve a better chance of mimicing the unique characteristics of Dwemer blood, since you essentially have the source material. Of course, true genetics doesn't quite work that way, but again... magic.

As for the artistic design of Elven armour changing over time, Elven armour is characteristic of Aldmeri style, and thus Altmeri (since the High Elves try to mimic everything the First Elves did). The Altmer are not really given to change, even over unreasonably long periods of time, so theres no reason why the two wouldn't look the same. As far as the Altmer are concerned, it's perfect, and why change perfection.

The REAL question is, where the hell are all the Falmer artifacts the Nords looted, and why is there no Stahlrim?

[StayFrosty05]

Not sure if this could be considered irony, but I had just finished the quest Ill Met By Moonlight and I let Sinding live and he said he'd stay out of public eye and live out his days in the cave where the hunt was, I fast traveled back to Falkreath and sinding in his werewolf form was coming out of the guard barracks and the orc dawnguard was near by and Runil the priest walked right by him, nobody in Falkreath would attack sinding!..

I have followed him along the road all the way to just outside Whiterun before, curious to see what would happen....and nothing, watched him trot past all sorts of NPC's and absolutely nada reactions....it is very weird....

[kevkiev]

Not sure if this could be considered irony, but I had just finished the quest Ill Met By Moonlight and I let Sinding live and he said he'd stay out of public eye and live out his days in the cave where the hunt was, I fast traveled back to Falkreath and sinding in his werewolf form was coming out of the guard barracks and the orc dawnguard was near by and Runil the priest walked right by him, nobody in Falkreath would attack sinding!..

I have followed him along the road all the way to just outside Whiterun before, curious to see what would happen....and nothing, watched him trot past all sorts of NPC's and absolutely nada reactions....it is very weird....

Yeah, same here. I saw him around the Honningbrew Meadery and walked with him back to the cave where he lives, passing by all sorts of NPCs. It was strange but kinda cool. Funniest part was getting ambushed by some Necromancer and seeing Sinding run for cover yelling "Somebody Help!!". You bet, tough guy.

[Inquart]

Nilsine Shatter-Shield killed (as an optional target in "Mourning Never Comes") when visiting her late twin sister's final resting place in Hall of the Dead in Windhelm. Maybe it's rather terrible or heartless - before killing her I asked if she can hear her sister's scream in the Void - than purely ironic, but I think it's worth mentioning here anyway.