51 replies to this topic

[StayFrosty05]

Ah! But that would require a whole other line of dialogue, which means scrip, recording time, paying voice actors etc...

I still tend to view most of the choice restrictions on voice acting...

Just the one....something like her saying "He will be expecting you" and that's it....just replacing the "Welcome to the College....First Lessons" Dialog...with no Mages College update in your journal....I really don't think that would have broken the bank...

[Lachdonin]

Ah! But that would require a whole other line of dialogue, which means scrip, recording time, paying voice actors etc...

I still tend to view most of the choice restrictions on voice acting...

Just the one....something like her saying "He will be expecting you" and that's it....just replacing the "Welcome to the College....First Lessons" Dialog...with no Mages College update in your journal....I really don't think that would have broken the bank...

First its that. Then its lieing about killing Parthuunax. Then its telling Brinyolf to go cram something, somewhere unpleasent. Then its poking fun at Astrid's furry-fetish. Where does it end?

[StayFrosty05]

Ah! But that would require a whole other line of dialogue, which means scrip, recording time, paying voice actors etc...

I still tend to view most of the choice restrictions on voice acting...

Just the one....something like her saying "He will be expecting you" and that's it....just replacing the "Welcome to the College....First Lessons" Dialog...with no Mages College update in your journal....I really don't think that would have broken the bank...

First its that. Then its lieing about killing Parthuunax. Then its telling Brinyolf to go cram something, somewhere unpleasent. Then its poking fun at Astrid's furry-fetish. Where does it end?

True to a point there Lacdonin...better use of scripting to begin with could have resolved much of that though too....its not about quantity, but quality....I do believe there should have been a vanilla option to put Delphine and Esburn in their places, I would have been disappointed if that was just regulating the only other option to a lie though.....pulling rank would have been a better option....As for situations like Brynjolf, the Vigilant, etc....less would have been more....not having Brynjolf chasing you around trying to activate his dialog tree or at the least no more dialog if you say 'No' or break dialog with him...same for the Vigilant...his dialog either doesn't begin at all unless you activate him, or stops after the first time.

[Lachdonin]

My point is, there are lots of ways that these things could have been better.

Taking the Mages Guild as an example. Imagine, not being a member, having to pass a difficult persuade check to get past whats-her-face. If you succede, she lets you in. If not, what then? Try again? Or, you could have a way to sneak in, climbing the stone pillar and entering through the midden, that way an environment is re-used to more than one quest, all with minimal work on the part of the designers.

The problem is, of course, that Bethesda has a track record of comming up with absolutely fantastic ideas (the Perk system, for instance) but failing to exploit them to their full extent. It probably has something to do with the size of the game, the free-roam aspect, and the constant bombardment of ideas which the designers deal with on a daily basis, but the end result is the same. They miss things, they fail to explore possibilites and don't develop good ideas into great ones. They've had this problem since, at least, Daggerfall, and i don't see it ending any time soon.


** Seriously though, no giggles about Astrid and her puppy? I thought the joke was pretty obvious when i found out he was a Werewolf...

Edited by Lachdonin, 31 August 2012 - 04:41 AM.

[StayFrosty05]

My point is, there are lots of ways that these things could have been better.

Taking the Mages Guild as an example. Imagine, not being a member, having to pass a difficult persuade check to get past whats-her-face. If you succede, she lets you in. If not, what then? Try again? Or, you could have a way to sneak in, climbing the stone pillar and entering through the midden, that way an environment is re-used to more than one quest, all with minimal work on the part of the designers.

The problem is, of course, that Bethesda has a track record of comming up with absolutely fantastic ideas (the Perk system, for instance) but failing to exploit them to their full extent. It probably has something to do with the size of the game, the free-roam aspect, and the constant bombardment of ideas which the designers deal with on a daily basis, but the end result is the same. They miss things, they fail to explore possibilites and don't develop good ideas into great ones. They've had this problem since, at least, Daggerfall, and i don't see it ending any time soon.


** Seriously though, no giggles about Astrid and her puppy? I thought the joke was pretty obvious when i found out he was a Werewolf...

Sadly I am quite convinced that the dialogs have been written for a 12 year olds common standard of understanding...though the game is rated higher....Bethesda knows as well as we that they have a very substantial market among the young...bought by their parents....It is a great shame about Bethesda doing this, you are right, it is a big game with many inclusions and would be impossible to keep everything tracked, though a little maturity to the dialog and choices would be a very welcome addition none the less.

As for Astrid...I forgot her hubbies Werewolf.... ...it's mentioned in the Guide (I have never done the DB), but that would certainly explain why she doesn't freak when my dude goes werewolf in the Abandoned Shack....just before he kills her.... ....Sorry am recently out of Surgery and gone loopy on pain killers, a lot is flying straight over my head these last few days....

Edited by StayFrosty05, 31 August 2012 - 05:04 AM.

[Ganit]

I've seen a lot of mods starting to surface that implement Morrowind-style skill-requirements for each "guild." Perhaps when the one for the Thieves' Guild finally shows up, the author will be kind enough to make sure Brynjolf's script for "You've never done an honest days work..." won't trigger until those are met.

Also, for anyone who isn't aware, you don't HAVE to pull of his scheme to get the information about Esbern. Just tab out of the conversation as soon as that's possible and go talk to the innkeeper at the Bee and Barb. It might not fix it being in your journal, but there's a least another, non-criminal way to find Esbern.

[Moraevik]

And if you have no intention at all of ever joining the Thieves Guild, you can permanently get rid of Brynjolf and his strong-arm tactics. Approach the market area slowly and stop the instant he leaves his stall and starts walking toward you. Save your game! This is just in case something goes wrong. Open the console and click on him. Make sure his refID shows up (20545), or just type "prid 20545". Then type "disable". He's gone. For good (or least until you re-enable him).

Note that I've tried to use the console to just disable his AI for a temporary reprieve, but for some reason this sometimes winds up disabling npc AI globally. I don't know why the game doesn't always pick up on his refID, because as far as I am aware that should work all the time, and I've been able to selectively disable individual npc AIs before -- just Brynjolf's seems buggy with respect to this.

[gsmanners]

Good quests: The main quest, thane quests, Bards College, College of Winterhold, Mara, Kynareth, Azura, Meridia, Sheogorath, Vaermina, and various side quests.

Neutral quests: Companions, Kyne, Dibella, Clavicus Vile, Hermaeus Mora, Hircine, Malacath, Sanguine, bounty quests.

Evil quests: The Civil War, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Boethiah, Mehrunes Dagon, Mephala, Molag Bal, Namira, Peryite, a few side quests.

Note that Mehrunes Dagon, Molag Bal, and Namira's quests can be finished in a somewhat neutral (possibly even good) way. The quest involving Mephala isn't too particularly evil in itself, though the reward is considered potentially very evil.

[kryptopyr]

I've seen a lot of mods starting to surface that implement Morrowind-style skill-requirements for each "guild." Perhaps when the one for the Thieves' Guild finally shows up, the author will be kind enough to make sure Brynjolf's script for "You've never done an honest days work..." won't trigger until those are met.

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/14157

If this isn't what you're after, I'd be curious what sort of conditions you'd like. I've been thinking about maybe reworking the conditions on this mod a bit...or at least making a more difficult version. I can probably also make it so that if you tell Brynjolf 'no', he won't continue to ask you (I've never tried using that option, so I wasn't aware it was a problem.)

[Ganit]

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/14157

If this isn't what you're after, I'd be curious what sort of conditions you'd like. I've been thinking about maybe reworking the conditions on this mod a bit...or at least making a more difficult version. I can probably also make it so that if you tell Brynjolf 'no', he won't continue to ask you (I've never tried using that option, so I wasn't aware it was a problem.)

That's perfect! Thank you, so much!