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What do the stormcloaks expect the thalmor to do?


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#1
calfurius

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I mean Stormcloaks plan to liberate themselves from the empire, yay!! The thing is, the Thalmor brought down the empire when it was united to its knees, how do the Stormcloaks expect to stop the Thalmor from coming to destroy them all? I heard the Redguards in hammerfell barely managed to ward the Thalmor off, but they ended up sacrificing a lot of land and lives to them. Plus the Thalmor must be planning on attacking them again soon.

It just feels like the Stormcloaks are being short sighted. Assuming they do somehow manage to ward the Thalmor off, it's going to cost a lot of lives and they are most likely going to have to give up so land to the thalmor just like what the redguards did. What's stopping the Thalmor from just regrouping, and coming at skyrim again and again?

This is one of the reasons none of my good characters can every be Stormcloaks, it just seems like the Stormcloaks are just ruled by anger and hatred at the Thalmor and not seeing the bigger picture at all.

#2
InuyashaFE

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The Thalmor were hit just as hard as the Empire was during the war.

And honestly? If the Dragonborn joined the Stormcloaks, I think they would be a force to be reckoned with. With the power of a Dovahkiin again, the Thalmor would be in big trouble.

Not to mention if the dragons became allied with the Dovahkiin, that'd be a pretty potent force.

#3
Mr. Bravo

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The Thalmor have been fighting a long time and should not be as powerful as they once were, especially considering how widely spread their forces are across Tamriel. They were close to defeat as well when peace-treaties were signed in Cyrodiil and Hammerfell, and that is how they still have so much control around Tamriel, through politics.

Now that they have lost their foothold in Skyrim, along with the Empire, I cant imagine it will be an easy fight for them to regain control. Skyrim was weak because its people were divided and afraid during the civil war and the Jarls were tied because of the "White-Gold Concordat". But now that the Stormcloaks have reunited the holds and most of the people, they are probably the most powerful province in all of Tamriel, given they get enough time to regroup their forces towards the borders around Skyrim. As mentioned above, they also have a dragonborn around, with at least one allied dragon by his side.

However, the Madmen of the Reach is still a growing threat within Skyrim, and I really hope Ulfric take them more seriously than the Imperials did. Eventhough Ulfric fought them before, they now at least should share a common interest; keeping the Thalmor and Imperials out of Skyrim. If they could somehow join forces, I dont think the Thalmor could stand a chance. But I'm afraid they hate eachother way too much, and Ulfric is too arrogant to realize the huge difference it would make (Especially considering how hard it was to have him pause the civil war in order to prevent the whole frikkin world from ending by Alduin).

So yeah, the Stormcloaks definitely fight more with their fists than their brains, and that will probably be their biggest weakness through the whole war, unless someone else gets the role as High King (Which is doubtful since Ulfric is currently swinging the biggest pair of balls in Skyrim, and have honestly deserved the role imo).


But the true goal of Thalmors fighting is yet to be revealed (Unless I have completely missed something). There are hints everywhere about they have some huge stuff going on, and I dont think it's just about conquering all of Tamriel. They are smart and manipulative, and definitely got some cards left up their sleeves to play with.

#4
JanusForbeare

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I have to disagree with some of the previous points.

The Thalmor clearly won the Great War. Perhaps not decisively, but the final battles were fought in Cyrodiil, the heartland of the Empire, not Summerset Isle. They may have been weakened (who wouldn't be, after existing in a state of total war for several years?), but their power relative to that of the Empire was clearly superior. The terms of the White Gold Concordat are proof of that.

Also, I think the Thalmor are pretty up front about their plans. Several of the Thalmor NPCs in Skyrim talk about "bringing about a new Merethic (ie. elven dominated) era", and proving elven superiority over men. There are almost certainly some needlessly complicated plots in the works, but I don't think that their primary goal was ever really in doubt.

To answer the OPs original question... I honestly don't know what the Stormcloaks' long term strategy is, if they have one. It basically seems to be, "fight until we beat the Empire, and then fight some more". I've never sided with them, because I honestly can't see why anybody apart from blindly patriotic Nords would.

#5
Georgiegril

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I agree with Janus. The stormcloaks don't see that they are pawns in a power grab for the high-kingship by Ulfric. If Ulfric were to succeed in getting this via a win of the war, do you really think he would sacrifice his victory, position, and probably his life to continue a was against the Thalmor? I'm guessing he'd agree to a truce very similar to what already exists, and then try to spin it as a victory. Alas, I will never know, since I just keep killing him...:whistling:

#6
calfurius

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Wait a second maybe this whole damn civil war is a plan by the Thalmor? I mean weaken the empire as a whole by causing infighting. Maybe the Thalmor stirred up resentment in skyrim on purpose, when they began kidnapping people. I know this may sound like some crazy theory, but with empire fragmented and feuding with each other. The Thalmor can take every single province out one by one. Also remember what Ulfric's court wizard, Wunferth the Unliving once said? "Magic is the true power of this world" The Thalmor easily have magical superiority over Skyrim, so if they were to attack the Thalmor could annihilate them with magic.

#7
Freya1997

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Wait a second maybe this whole damn civil war is a plan by the Thalmor? I mean weaken the empire as a whole by causing infighting. Maybe the Thalmor stirred up resentment in skyrim on purpose, when they began kidnapping people. I know this may sound like some crazy theory, but with empire fragmented and feuding with each other. The Thalmor can take every single province out one by one. Also remember what Ulfric's court wizard, Wunferth the Unliving once said? "Magic is the true power of this world" The Thalmor easily have magical superiority over Skyrim, so if they were to attack the Thalmor could annihilate them with magic.

I suggest you find and look up the Thalmor dossier on Ulfric. It'll tell you a few interesting things.

#8
Mr. Bravo

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I agree with Janus. The stormcloaks don't see that they are pawns in a power grab for the high-kingship by Ulfric. If Ulfric were to succeed in getting this via a win of the war, do you really think he would sacrifice his victory, position, and probably his life to continue a was against the Thalmor? I'm guessing he'd agree to a truce very similar to what already exists, and then try to spin it as a victory. Alas, I will never know, since I just keep killing him...:whistling:


Ulfric's only goal is to make Skyrim strong and independent, and giving back its people the right to worship Talos again. When challenging and defeating the previous High King, he merely proved his point, that Skyrim needs a proper leader. As it turns out, I'd say Ulfric is the only one around who is suited for the role. Sure he wants it, but he still respect traditions and is willing to challenge any other candidates. He's got the blood, the background, the experience, the respect, the heart and will for it.

But yes, his interests lies only within the borders of Skyrim. He wont try to save the world, but will do anything to protect the province. Accepting a truce with the Thalmor will never happen, since this is exactly what they have been fighting against from the beginning. The Thalmor still has a major interest in Skyrim though, and Ulfric will not let them in again, so the fighting will definitely continue. Ulfric is however not ready to operate outside of Skyrim for many years, but will have to keep defending his own borders until they have more proper and organized means to success. I honestly dont think they can beat the Thalmor themselves, but can at least protect their own lands for a while. In order to end the Thalmor there needs to be some serious alliance, or some sort of inside/assassination job aimed directly at the leaders in Summerset Isle.

The Imperials are currently corrupted puppets and should remember who the enemy really is. I cant stand the thought of joining them in the war :P Fight for the empire and you fight for Thalmor.


Wait a second maybe this whole damn civil war is a plan by the Thalmor? I mean weaken the empire as a whole by causing infighting. Maybe the Thalmor stirred up resentment in skyrim on purpose, when they began kidnapping people. I know this may sound like some crazy theory, but with empire fragmented and feuding with each other. The Thalmor can take every single province out one by one. Also remember what Ulfric's court wizard, Wunferth the Unliving once said? "Magic is the true power of this world" The Thalmor easily have magical superiority over Skyrim, so if they were to attack the Thalmor could annihilate them with magic.


Well, yes. It seems you've missed a lot of the story in Skyrim :P

But I dont agree about magicians. They're powerful yes, but there are always weapons and tactics to fight it. Especially Nords should be quite experienced in this matter.

#9
calfurius

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I agree with Janus. The stormcloaks don't see that they are pawns in a power grab for the high-kingship by Ulfric. If Ulfric were to succeed in getting this via a win of the war, do you really think he would sacrifice his victory, position, and probably his life to continue a was against the Thalmor? I'm guessing he'd agree to a truce very similar to what already exists, and then try to spin it as a victory. Alas, I will never know, since I just keep killing him...:whistling:


Ulfric's only goal is to make Skyrim strong and independent, and giving back its people the right to worship Talos again. When challenging and defeating the previous High King, he merely proved his point, that Skyrim needs a proper leader. As it turns out, I'd say Ulfric is the only one around who is suited for the role. Sure he wants it, but he still respect traditions and is willing to challenge any other candidates. He's got the blood, the background, the experience, the respect, the heart and will for it.

But yes, his interests lies only within the borders of Skyrim. He wont try to save the world, but will do anything to protect the province. Accepting a truce with the Thalmor will never happen, since this is exactly what they have been fighting against from the beginning. The Thalmor still has a major interest in Skyrim though, and Ulfric will not let them in again, so the fighting will definitely continue. Ulfric is however not ready to operate outside of Skyrim for many years, but will have to keep defending his own borders until they have more proper and organized means to success. I honestly dont think they can beat the Thalmor themselves, but can at least protect their own lands for a while. In order to end the Thalmor there needs to be some serious alliance, or some sort of inside/assassination job aimed directly at the leaders in Summerset Isle.

The Imperials are currently corrupted puppets and should remember who the enemy really is. I cant stand the thought of joining them in the war :P Fight for the empire and you fight for Thalmor.


Wait a second maybe this whole damn civil war is a plan by the Thalmor? I mean weaken the empire as a whole by causing infighting. Maybe the Thalmor stirred up resentment in skyrim on purpose, when they began kidnapping people. I know this may sound like some crazy theory, but with empire fragmented and feuding with each other. The Thalmor can take every single province out one by one. Also remember what Ulfric's court wizard, Wunferth the Unliving once said? "Magic is the true power of this world" The Thalmor easily have magical superiority over Skyrim, so if they were to attack the Thalmor could annihilate them with magic.


Well, yes. It seems you've missed a lot of the story in Skyrim :P

But I dont agree about magicians. They're powerful yes, but there are always weapons and tactics to fight it. Especially Nords should be quite experienced in this matter.



Multiple NPC's in solitude who were close to Torygg siad that if Ulfric had just asked for Torygg to declare skyrim independent, he'd would have down so. Instead of doing that though, Ulfric walks into the palace and kills Torygg to prove....what exactly? What point did he prove by killing the High King? The only thing that was accomplished by killing the High King was suspiciously leaving the the spot open for anybody to grab...

Also multiple NPC's in the empire has stated that they hate the Thalmor just as much as the Stormcloaks, but they believe that the only way to beat the Thalmor in the long run is to stay together until they are strong enough to fight back. The empire doesn't want to do follow the White-Gold Concordat but if they don't the Thalmor would just destroy them.

Also if you listen to Alvor the Blacksmith in Riverwood he said that before Ulfric started making a big fuss about it, people still had secret shrines in their houses. If Ulfric had just kept his mouth shut people would still be able to worship who they please, just not out in the open.

Another thing that bothers me about Ulfric is that he says he wants to liberate Skyrim, yet has the Dunmer living in slums and ignores their pleas for better living conditions or assist them if they have any problems with bandits. Ulfric wants skyrim for the Nords and only cares about Nord problems, while the Thalmor want the Mer race to be dominant and only care about Thalmor problems. How are they different from each other?

Also I read the Thalmor Dossier, Ulfric is being played for a fool. The Thalmor wanted him to weaken the Empire, so even assuming his intentions are good, He's still just another pawn in the Aldmeri Dominion's plan for controlling all of Tamriel.

Also, the Thalmor are still very powerful. Ulfric will have a very difficult time trying to defend Skyrim against a full scale assault. Even if he does manage to ward them off it will cost thousands of lives making any efforts to rebuild Skyrim much harder, if even possible.

#10
gsmanners

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The Stormcloaks are fueled by fear and hate, pure and simple. They have no plan. If they did, they wouldn't have declared a war they cannot hope to win, Dragonborn ally or no.

Let's lay out all the long term problems with their war:

1) The Empire is still viewed favorably by the majority of Nords. They may view Ulfric with sympathy, but they also see Imperials as their brothers. This attitude can only cause further disputes, even if Ulfric were to win the war. This is something that Ulfric himself knows, and his hesitation serves him well, though he doesn't listen to his own good judgment.

2) Any decisive victory will spur the natives of the Reach to desperate measures, severely crippling whatever army assumes control there, leaving them exposed in that region to Thalmor invasion. Had the Stormcloaks left it alone, this would have been the Empire's burden to bear.

3) The Dragonborn cannot hope to defeat the Thalmor without an army since the Thalmor will undoubtedly know (or will soon learn) that a simple ward can thwart the most powerful Shouts. This renders the mighty Dragonborn as helpless as any average general in an army. The Thalmor would win such an engagement, since they and their allies far outnumber the Sons of Skyrim.

4) The dragons themselves are fiercely independent and only obey the Dragonborn in limited numbers. Furthermore, they are easily countered by a small crack squad of archers equipped with flame/poison-tipped arrows. The elves are renown for their marksmanship, and would thus not fail to thwart any of Skyrim's dragon allies.

5) Skyrim itself is plagued by feral dragons, by insanely aggressive wildlife (including the legendary frost trolls), by powerful draugr, by the Falmer, by vampires, and very pervasive (not to mention formidable) bandits. Any gathering of a united Skyrim army would be doomed to having its own forces decimated by all these hostile forces. The elves, on the other hand, are very organized and well-equipped. The only strategy the elves would need to employ is to surround Skyrim and wait for it to destroy itself.

These are just the major reasons. There are also numerous smaller points that doom the Stormcloaks to failure, ultimately.




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