49 replies to this topic

[ilikecheese1337]

Serana can only really have been from the early First Era - she knows about the College of Winterhold. She's very well-read, so it's plausible that she heard of it soon after its founding, but not that she's from before it ever existed. She absolutely needs to predate the Reman Empire, and probably the Alessian Empire.

 

As for Volkihar Castle, it's a run-down castle on a tiny, freezing island in the Sea of Ghosts with no strategic advantages and no purpose unless you want to be sequestered from others. As such, no armies large enough to bring down a family of vampires bothered with it. It may also be magically warded.

[Fistandilius]

A couple of things bug me that I read in this thread and seeings how it's so old I'm not going to quote the original posters, but....

 

Someone brought up the fact that Serana was in such good shape when she woke up.  I didn't see anything in Skyrim lore that suggested you would die if you didn't feed.  Even in Oblivion all you did was lose stamina when the sun was out, which was inconvenient, but not much else.  I don't think Skyrim is much different even after the dawnguard overhaul.  I've never once seen evidence of a vampire who withered away in Skyrim, unless it was mistaken for a draugr (or turned to ash?), and lastly, two things... one, she was of the volkair clan which we are told in Immortal Blood is more pure and has more power than regular vampires, and two, she was supposedly created during a ritual that supposedly made her personally involved with Molag Bol, changing her through some kind of rape, whether it be physical or spiritual.  In other words, she came from the source.

 

I was really disappointed when I brought her with me during the abandoned house quest in markarth and there was no special dialogue.  Bethesda really let me down on that one.

 

Also, someone brought up the idea of Elder Scrolls being sentient.   While I don't disagree with this notion, I also believe that there must be some methods of controlling them.   Afterall, the moth priests have allegedly collected them for the Empire in the library, and the Dwemer managed to leave one in a recording machine for who knows how long in Blackreach.  We've also seen evidence before that the Dwemer are able to find ways to control things that were previously thought uncontrollable.

Edited by Fistandilius, 27 December 2013 - 06:52 PM.

[ilikecheese1337]

 

Someone brought up the fact that Serana was in such good shape when she woke up.  I didn't see anything in Skyrim lore that suggested you would die if you didn't feed.  Even in Oblivion all you did was lose stamina when the sun was out, which was inconvenient, but not much else.  I don't think Skyrim is much different even after the dawnguard overhaul.  I've never once seen evidence of a vampire who withered away in Skyrim, unless it was mistaken for a draugr (or turned to ash?), and lastly, two things... one, she was of the volkair clan which we are told in Immortal Blood is more pure and has more power than regular vampires, and two, she was supposedly created during a ritual that supposedly made her personally involved with Molag Bol, changing her through some kind of rape, whether it be physical or spiritual.  In other words, she came from the source.

 

Don't forget that she was asleep in some magic sarcophagus-thing. It's possible it put her in the magical equivalent of suspended animation. Anyway, there's no indication that Vampire Lords - being, as you say, magical creatures created by Molag Bal rather than the victims of a disease - actually necessarily need to feed to survive.

 

 

 

 

 

I was really disappointed when I brought her with me during the abandoned house quest in markarth and there was no special dialogue.  Bethesda really let me down on that one.

 

I recall reading that she's supposed to cower before the altar. Even so, it's entirely within Molag Bal's character to ignore a past victim, just to twist the knife deeper.

[Fistandilius]

 

Don't forget that she was asleep in some magic sarcophagus-thing. It's possible it put her in the magical equivalent of suspended animation. Anyway, there's no indication that Vampire Lords - being, as you say, magical creatures created by Molag Bal rather than the victims of a disease - actually necessarily need to feed to survive.

 

You obviously didn't pay any attention to the dialogue.  That's exactly what a "Daughter of Coldharbour" is.  It's a human girl who submits herself to Molag Bal to become a pure vampire.  It's a point of pride for the Volkair (sp?) clan that both Serana and her mother are true daughters of Coldharbor and not common vampires and also the whole point of Harkon needing her for the prophecy.  It's probably also the reason they're both somewhat pretty and don't have the hideous faces that most vampires since the dawnguard plugin have.

 

Which now that I mention it begs the question just as to what Harkon had to do to become a Vampire Lord.  Maybe his reward for giving up his daughter.   If they said, I don't remember.

 

Also, I wonder if the court mage of Solitude, whose name escapes me at the moment, is also a daughter of coldharbour?

 

 

I recall reading that she's supposed to cower before the altar. Even so, it's entirely within Molag Bal's character to ignore a past victim

 

She does cower, but it isn't anything special Bethesda did except that they enabled her to use the activators for idle animations.  She cowers because she adopts the animation activator used by the priest of Boetha ( I know I spelled that wrong too, but I can't be bothered to look it up right now.)

Edited by Fistandilius, 27 December 2013 - 11:21 PM.

[Lachdonin]

 

 

I recall reading that she's supposed to cower before the altar. Even so, it's entirely within Molag Bal's character to ignore a past victim

 

She does cower, but it isn't anything special Bethesda did except that they enabled her to use the activators for idle animations.  She cowers because she adopts the animation activator used by the priest of Boetha ( I know I spelled that wrong too, but I can't be bothered to look it up right now.)

 

 

That's still better than what most games would do. And again, Serana isn't likely to say anything for fear of attracting Bal's attention, and Bal doesn't give a rats ass about his followers, past or present, and is unlikely to even acknowledge her existence. He already got her submittance, raped and violated her, then twisted her soul into an abomination. He's done with her. 

[Fistandilius]

 

That's still better than what most games would do. And again, Serana isn't likely to say anything for fear of attracting Bal's attention, and Bal doesn't give a rats ass about his followers, past or present, and is unlikely to even acknowledge her existence. He already got her submittance, raped and violated her, then twisted her soul into an abomination. He's done with her. 

 

 

You're missing the point that it wasn't intentional on Bethesda's part.  All they did was enable her to use idle animations (i.e. she can use a workbench, sweep the floor, use a grindstone, etc.)

 

You may have a point about her being afraid of his wrath.  Still I would have liked to have seen some type of comment from her after they went through such a big deal to explain the whole daughter of coldharbour thing and they don't even tie it in to the daedra quest.

[aozgolo]

One possible alternate conclusion could be that perhaps Serana's memories aren't quite as good as we're lead to believe. She certainly appears to have a good memory and seems sane enough, but given the fact that Elder Scrolls have a tendency to make anyone who reads them go blind and mad, it's no telling what kind of devilry it could have played on her whilst in her suspended state, regardless of reading it or not the sheer exposure over such a long time could have unforseen consequences. Again this is going back to the deus ex machina but we have no real way of knowing how the Elder Scroll could have impacted her "memories", I find this a more logical conclusion than attempting to bend every other possible truth around her apparent "surprise at a cyrodiilic empire"

[BrettM]

One possible alternate conclusion could be that perhaps Serana's memories aren't quite as good as we're lead to believe. She certainly appears to have a good memory and seems sane enough, but given the fact that Elder Scrolls have a tendency to make anyone who reads them go blind and mad, it's no telling what kind of devilry it could have played on her whilst in her suspended state, regardless of reading it or not the sheer exposure over such a long time could have unforseen consequences. Again this is going back to the deus ex machina but we have no real way of knowing how the Elder Scroll could have impacted her "memories", I find this a more logical conclusion than attempting to bend every other possible truth around her apparent "surprise at a cyrodiilic empire"

However, her surprise isn't the only evidence we have for the length of time.

 

Durnehviir speaks of coming to the Soul Cairn during a time when dragons were vying with each other for territory. This would almost certainly be after the Dragon War, when the remaining dragons were left leaderless after Alduin's banishment, since I can't imagine Alduin allowing this kind of extensive infighting under his rule. However, since there were still plenty of dragons around, it had to be before the Akaviri showed up and began their extermination campaign under Reman.

 

His bargain with the Ideal Masters was to keep watch on Valerica, which means that she was already in the Soul Cairn when he arrived, and Serana had already been locked away. Thus, the time frame must be somewhere between the late Merethic Era and the end of the First Era even if we assume Serana's memory is flawed.

 

Another bit of evidence comes from Serana asking the identity of the High King. If she had been shut away before the reign of King Harald, I'm not sure this question would have occurred to her, since Skyrim was not truly an independent nation before Harald, who formed the first Moot and is considered the first true ruler of Skyrim.

 

Given her comment about a "war of succession," it may be that she was familiar with Borgas and the war that followed his death. This would imply that she was locked away during the interregnum between the First and Second Empires, which could explain her surprise at the existence of an empire in Cyrodiil even if she was familiar with the Alessian Empire. It would also be congruent with Durnehviir's story, as there were certainly still many dragons around at that time according to Paarthurnax and the story of Olaf One-Eye.

[Lachdonin]

Another bit of evidence comes from Serana asking the identity of the High King. If she had been shut away before the reign of King Harald, I'm not sure this question would have occurred to her, since Skyrim was not truly an independent nation before Harald, who formed the first Moot and is considered the first true ruler of Skyrim.

 

 

Very astute! I hadn't even thought about that, but the mention of the position of High King certainly narrows it down a good measure.

 

If we are, indeed, talking about the first interregnium, we could be dealing with all sorts of contextual silliness, due to the Alessian Dragonbreak. 

[StealthBlade98]

Damn, I knew her comments in game suggested she's old but to think the first era is quite long. But does this also mean the dwarves has also been gone that long? I mean she comments on the ruins being in such a state and that they wouldn't usually leave them like that. 

Also a random question, even though the dragonborn isn't a pure blood vampire(assuming your characters joined Volkihaar), does that mean we have to feed to survive or no? Cause Vingalmo claims harkon parted some of his blood into us when we turn into a vampire lord which is what allows us to turn other NPC's into the family at various locations.