61 replies to this topic

[gsmanners]

There is really nothing in the way the dialogue is scripted or the way the quests are structured that would indicate the game was intended to be geared toward solving puzzles. I don't think this is accidental or negligent, but rather, for better or worse, I feel that it was a conscious choice made by the game designers.

There's nothing in the dialogue to indicate that people should go out of their way to shove their problems on you, either. In fact, the way Jarl Balgruuf (for example) suddenly decides to be your friend and then suddenly makes you thane just because you retrieve a rock for him is laughable. It would make far more sense for him to do that had there been some difficulty in you accomplishing all that or if you had discovered Farengar on your own and had volunteered, etc. The way this game plays is more like sitting in a roller coaster, ducking out of the way of simple obstacles from time to time. I admit that there is some appeal even in that, but come on. This is supposed to be an RPG. Role playing without puzzling challenges is just... BORING (as Uncle Sheo might say).

[Moraevik]

Actually, gsmanners, Balgruuf doesn't make you thane until after you've defeated the dragon. My reward for getting the stone for Farengar has always been a useless piece of armor -- in the last playthrough iron armor for a character who is a monk and doesn't wear ANY armor at all, much less heavy armor.

The problem with Balgruuf is that you don't have a choice about your title. There's no way to refuse it and no way to step down. There's also no real reward, except for the warm fuzzy feeling that you are now Thane of Whiterun and you can get away with one -- count 'em, one -- crime without being fined or thrown into the clink. I think that in all my play-throughs (certainly at least twenty, maybe more, since I quit keeping count at fifteen) the Axe of Whiterun was actually useful to me once -- for about three levels and then I found a better one as part of random loot.

At least with the other holds you have to consciously pursue a dialog option that will lead to thaneship, if and only if you satisfy certain requirements. That's the way it should be, and I thank you for bringing up this little point, which I neglected to mention in my introductory post.

[gsmanners]

Actually, gsmanners, Balgruuf doesn't make you thane until after you've defeated the dragon.

You don't actually need to defeat the dragon. You just need to witness Irileth defeating it. So, like I said...

But you are right about not being able to refuse becoming thane. You ought to at least be given the option.

[Moraevik]

Minor technicality. Everyone still thinks you killed it, even if you never lift a sword/bow/casting hand. I actually think this quest should require you to get 50% of the damage on the dragon AND the killing blow, but I'm not sure how one would go about making this happen. It's really annoying in a funny sort of way that my Dragonborn starts acquiring a reputation even without doing anything. I still have to laugh about one play-through where I had kept my nose ENTIRELY clean -- never even attacked anyone without being attacked first, and never provoked anyone into attacking me, and early in the game I got tagged by a DB assassin. Random game is random, but that's another topic, I guess.

I think there's a mod floating around out there, somewhere, that prevents you from being the thane of more than one hold, or at least there was talk about it. This would obviously conflict with the Main Quest in which you automatically become Thane of Whiterun upon defeating Mirmulnir (or at least being there when he's defeated). It would make Whiterun the only hold for which you can become Thane, since that's an automatically-bestowed title.

[kryptopyr]

Well, you did take it's soul. I think that means that if nothing else you at least helped to permanently kill the dragon.

The Whiterun Thane is indeed a great one for the list, and something definitely forced upon the character if they want to progress the main quest. It could also potentially feel just as out of character as any of the other quests we've discussed, and I agree that it seems rushed and a bit out of place from the story's perspective. I mean, theoretically, your first day in Skyrim could go from nearly being beheaded as a traitor and rebel, to being appointed Thane of one of the major holds (one that doesn't support said rebels)...that's quite a day. It would be nice to see a fix for this, but I'm guessing that this would probably be one that would take a significant amount of work to rework it. At least if you wanted the option to become Thane down the road. Simply adding an option to decline it early on might not be too bad.

I came across this mod last night, and thought it might interest some of those here: http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/21700
There's also a link to a mod for Boethiah's quest.

I was also wondering if anyone here used this mod, and if so, what they thought about it. I wouldn't consider better journal entries to be hand-holding (at least, not any more so than the standard journal entries), and I like the idea of not being forced to use quest markers all the time.

[kryptopyr]

Alright, so I think I've fixed the Civil War quest (no more Join the Imperials/Stormcloaks), the Forsworn Conspiracy, and Azura's Star. I've not had a chance to test these changes, and I probably won't have time until this weekend at the earliest. If anyone else is willing to test the mod, I can go ahead and upload it as a beta version. I'm planning to keep working on adding more quests, but if I can get some help with testing, it would speed the process up considerably.

[AnkhAscendant]

I hate to add to the chorus of chirping crickets, but I don't have time to open Skyrim until the weekends either, so I can't really help test.

I was thinking that I could try to fix the Argonian who thrusts Unfathomable Depths upon you. I didn't think it would be so hard to add a decline option, especially since she's crazy and can just repeat her opening line Of course,I haven't actually tried to mod anything since Morrowind, which is why I chose a really simple one, pretty far away from the beginning area so I won't get in the way if you;re working from the front onward.

I also think I remembered another that started on rumor. The Temple of Kynareth one about the Gildergreen has a rumor in Whiterun.

[kryptopyr]

I just found this: http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/10125

It would probably be a good solution for anyone wanting a warning as to which books are going to give you a quest.

[kryptopyr]

For anyone still interested: http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/26359

[Trucidation]

What a coincidence, I was planning to use that mod - after reading all 6 pages (the discussion seemed to end rather abruptly...) I realised you wrote the mod, nice. Wonder why this hasn't gotten more interest, I thought surely more than a handful of people would prefer having more options available to them quest-wise.