145 replies to this topic

[modder3434]

sajuukkhar9000, why are you so keen to defend the indefensible, ie Bethesda? You only have to look on these forums, any other games forum, heck even on their official forums the discontent surfaces briefly before they lock or remove the threads. You can find any number of bug reports, not all of which are due to mods, as people are having issues with Dawnguard whether or not they have mods. Not for nothing are Bethesda referred to as Bugthesda, but at least with previous games I have always found that they have patched and eventually got around to fixing bugs as well as releasing DLC. But I have NEVER had bugs as glaring as I have had with Skyrim, and I have always run heavily modded games. Whether with Morrowind (one bug with the Telvanni bride quest easily fixed with the console), Oblivion (never a single game breaker)or FO3 or FONV, nothing has had as many clangers as Skyrim for me. So it really seems like a slap in the face when all they care about is pumping out more DLC, rather than fixing what is broken.

When did I ever say that Skyrim has no bugs? Or that the bugs it does have are in no way game breaking? Ohh wait, never, the game is buggy, and I never denied that.

What I do deny is the incessant whining of people who have zero idea of what it takes to develop a game. You really think the developers at Bethesda sit there and go "WELP BUGS ARE HERE BUT LETS IGNORE DEM!"?

No, Bethesda doesn't fix all the bugs because they simply cant, they don't have the budget to, and in games like Skyrim, games that have millions of possible interactions, the number of bugs will be far greater then any other game, and many of those bugs will have to remain unfixable.

In a perfect world where money and time don't exist, Bethesda would fix all the bugs, but this isn't a perfect world, and we should be thankful Bethesda let modders do what they could not.

And I defend Bethesda because I'm tired of seeing whiny, entitled, ****** constantly complain about things they either have no understanding of, or chose willingly to not understand, and have this entitled belief of "Bethesda should do everything I want when I want it", and "Bethesda not fixing every single bug is outrageous". It's that sort of attitude that makes me hate calling myself a gamer nowadays.

We should be glad Bethesda has fixed what they did, and we should be even more glad that Bethesda lets modders make the unofficial patches, If any other company made Skyrim, with as many bugs, like Activison, we would see 1 patch, then they would be all working on Elder Scrolls 6, and there would be no mods, so all the other bugs would NEVER get fixed.

The attitude of gamers nowadays is frankly revolting.

I have to agree with sajuukkhar9000 here. Yes Skyrim is buggy, and yes it can seem like Bethesda ignores it, but the fact remains that in a game on this scale (Including all other TES games and the new Fallouts) there will be errors, and some people will have more errors then others do to their individual systems, method of installation, and tweaks they have personally made.

Bethesda does care about the people who buy their product, which is why they make patches, which have to cover certain bugs that the majority of the gamers have experienced. They could stop there, but they also give us the tools to make and fix things that they don't have the luxury and time to do.

If Bethesda followed your battle plan ginnyfizz then they would spend all their time trying to conceive every possible thing that can go wrong with the game, then they wouldn't be able to make and distribute more content for the game which adds to the experience (although like Hearthfire some of it is more geared at console players then PC)

[ginnyfizz]

No, Bethesda doesn't fix all the bugs because they simply cant, they don't have the budget to....

The attitude of gamers nowadays is frankly revolting.

Don't have the budget? Don't make me laugh any harder. They are a multi million dollar outfit. They have that budget and THAT is why people are losing patience with them. They released a flawed as heck product just to comply with an eye catching release date. They took ages to fix the PS3 thing. They pumped out DLC rather than fixing bugs and then when the DLC lobbed us in a real game breaker, they have still done nothing three months down the line...except MORE DLC.

The attitude of some gamers is frankly too supine. I simply will never buy another Bethesda game at release, or if I do, at least not play it until the bug reports roll in and see if they get fixed. Bethesda ARE "doing an Activision" and that is the problem.

[modder3434]

No, Bethesda doesn't fix all the bugs because they simply cant, they don't have the budget to....

The attitude of gamers nowadays is frankly revolting.

Don't have the budget? Don't make me laugh any harder. They are a multi million dollar outfit. They have that budget and THAT is why people are losing patience with them. They released a flawed as heck product just to comply with an eye catching release date. They took ages to fix the PS3 thing. They pumped out DLC rather than fixing bugs and then when the DLC lobbed us in a real game breaker, they have still done nothing three months down the line...except MORE DLC.

The attitude of some gamers is frankly too supine. I simply will never buy another Bethesda game at release, or if I do, at least not play it until the bug reports roll in and see if they get fixed. Bethesda ARE "doing an Activision" and that is the problem.

are you pushig this "fix the damn game Bugthesda" wagon hard, because you were just as taken back by the bugs as the rest of us where? Bitching (excessive ranting, passionate debating, and emotional discussion) in general does no good, and it won't make Bethesda work any faster on making patches. The only way to make the patches move along faster is if you went and got employed by Bethesda to fix Skyrim's bugs, and that wouldn't work since once your thier employee your on their schedule now.

[ginnyfizz]

But..errr...if no-one reported any bugs or complained about them, then they would certainly be convinced that their game is perfect and do naff all about it. For example, if no-one had reported the backward flying dragons bug, doubtless they would not have patched it.

When I first had the bug in Castle Volkihar with Harkon and the Vamp Lord malarkey, I reported it through the official support channels, giving factual reports, screenshots, system specs and everything required. I told them that the bug happened as much on a fresh install as it did on a modded one. I received a polite and convincing sounding reply that they were aware of this bug as a "known issue" (so I cannot have been the only person reporting it)and assuring me that they were working to patch it in the very near future. Since when, a big fat nothing on that issue, just more DLC. So going through the proper channels and being polite does beggar all either.

We appreciate that they are a business and have to make money, but with all the resources that they have at their disposal, surely when they patch up for the next DLC they could include fixes for the game breakers?

And I don't appreciate them saying "Oh yes we are going to fix it very soon" when they obviously didn't intend to.

I am never taken aback by bugs in Bethesda games - after all it wasn't me that coined the nickname "Bugthesda", but as I said in a previous post, I have never experienced such game breakers in their games before as I have found in Skyrim, and what does take me aback is their inertia.

[modder3434]

But..errr...if no-one reported any bugs or complained about them, then they would certainly be convinced that their game is perfect and do naff all about it. For example, if no-one had reported the backward flying dragons bug, doubtless they would not have patched it.

When I first had the bug in Castle Volkihar with Harkon and the Vamp Lord malarkey, I reported it through the official support channels, giving factual reports, screenshots, system specs and everything required. I told them that the bug happened as much on a fresh install as it did on a modded one. I received a polite and convincing sounding reply that they were aware of this bug as a "known issue" (so I cannot have been the only person reporting it)and assuring me that they were working to patch it in the very near future. Since when, a big fat nothing on that issue, just more DLC. So going through the proper channels and being polite does beggar all either.

We appreciate that they are a business and have to make money, but with all the resources that they have at their disposal, surely when they patch up for the next DLC they could include fixes for the game breakers?

And I don't appreciate them saying "Oh yes we are going to fix it very soon" when they obviously didn't intend to.

I am never taken aback by bugs in Bethesda games - after all it wasn't me that coined the nickname "Bugthesda", but as I said in a previous post, I have never experienced such game breakers in their games before as I have found in Skyrim, and what does take me aback is their inertia.

ok i agree with, and i should have stated, that i'm all for reporting bugs, but as your yourself have said reporting it and being polite does nothing. Neither does excessive beating of the problem, which is what i was mainly getting at previously.

and yes i am upset too with the delay in fixing the major bugs still prevalent, but i don't get ....flustered about it sense their is nothing i can do to speed up the rate at which Bethesda patches the game.

crossing fingers that patch 1.8 fixes some bugs, but hope was never my strong suit.

[digitaltrucker]

Hmm - I've been playing Skyrim for almost a year now, and haven't really run into any game-breaking bugs caused by Bethesda. A few minor glitches here and there, and most of those were temporary. I also run mainly vanilla. A few mods to tweak this or that, and of course the unofficial patches. I only had one character that experienced a true game-breaking bug, and that was caused by a mod. I don't follow a railroad-track game, either. Most of my characters go way off the beaten path immediately and do some fairly strange things.

Not slamming anyone, just my personal experience.

Edited by digitaltrucker, 01 November 2012 - 01:02 PM.

[Inquart]

Just a few words that may as well be completely ignored in the discussion...

I think that - while Bethesda makes a lot of money on us - they still, let's say, work for us, not the other way around; they released Skyrim for us and while it's truly great game of epic proportions, we as players (and customers) can and should critize it when it's right; telling them (politely or not) to fix a few bigger and smaller bugs here and there is not bitching, but rather simply reminding them what they're supposed to do. I mean, it's great that they're not ignoring us and are still patching the game even though it's been an awful lot of time since its release, but...well, it's been really an awful lot of time now, so either the initial release was (and still is) so bugged or something is wrong here.

Now, I know that Bethesda has very little (if anything) to do with BioWare and I don't mean to start another quarrel here, but does anyone still remember that original, crappy Mass Effect 3 ending? The players were rightfully angry (to put it mildly) about it, started "bitching" and finally it worked, more or less (some people will never be satisfied). So I guess being demanding and bitchy isn't always that bad

[ginnyfizz]

Well stand by because patch 1.8 just went live, I got ninja'd by it just now after resetting my router. Let's see what it does, already grabbed the SKSE beta which should work with it.

[ginnyfizz]

Aaaand guess what it has broken...yes, the ruddy Creation Kit. I can do nix, nada, beggar all with my mod.
*Grabs pitchfork....*

[sajuukkhar9000]

Don't have the budget? Don't make me laugh any harder. They are a multi million dollar outfit. They have that budget and THAT is why people are losing patience with them. They released a flawed as heck product just to comply with an eye catching release date. They took ages to fix the PS3 thing. They pumped out DLC rather than fixing bugs and then when the DLC lobbed us in a real game breaker, they have still done nothing three months down the line...except MORE DLC.

The attitude of some gamers is frankly too supine. I simply will never buy another Bethesda game at release, or if I do, at least not play it until the bug reports roll in and see if they get fixed. Bethesda ARE "doing an Activision" and that is the problem.

You really have no understanding of the costs needed to maintain a game company do you?

And despite all these game breaking bugs you mention, I haven't gotten a one, so I really don't see where you are coming from.

Just a few words that may as well be completely ignored in the discussion...

I think that - while Bethesda makes a lot of money on us - they still, let's say, work for us, not the other way around; they released Skyrim for us and while it's truly great game of epic proportions, we as players (and customers) can and should critize it when it's right; telling them (politely or not) to fix a few bigger and smaller bugs here and there is not bitching, but rather simply reminding them what they're supposed to do. I mean, it's great that they're not ignoring us and are still patching the game even though it's been an awful lot of time since its release, but...well, it's been really an awful lot of time now, so either the initial release was (and still is) so bugged or something is wrong here.

Now, I know that Bethesda has very little (if anything) to do with BioWare and I don't mean to start another quarrel here, but does anyone still remember that original, crappy Mass Effect 3 ending? The players were rightfully angry (to put it mildly) about it, started "bitching" and finally it worked, more or less (some people will never be satisfied). So I guess being demanding and bitchy isn't always that bad

Bethesda does not work for us, not at all, neither do movie makers, or novelists, they make things they want to, in the way they want to, and its up to the people to decide if they also want to experience someone elses world.


As for Mass Effect 3, the fans had ZERO right to demand the game be changed. You don't like the ending? well its not your game, its theirs. I may not have liked how star wars episode 1-3 turned out, but that doesn't give me any right to demand Lucas change it, nor should he have to.

Indeed, I was sad when Bioware backed down under peer pressure and changed the endings, frankly the actions of the gaming community at that time as exactly what was wrong with gaming now a days, the entitled seek more entitlement.

Edited by sajuukkhar9000, 01 November 2012 - 10:21 PM.