98 replies to this topic

[Koshinn]

Well Japan in modern times is much like the UK in that the Emperor doesn't really do anything of note while the Prime Minister is the one that holds the "real" power.


But where I was going with the whole Emperor staying in Japan and the new Japanese government in America cleansing the wastes of mutants is that

Spoiler

the original Emperor survives the bombs dropping and is exposed to radiation and the FEV virus, becoming a ghoul and thus effectively not aging. Maybe towards the end of the story he finally makes his way to America in order to bring back Japan's lost children to the home land, which causes a lot of internal conflict with loyalties divided between the new and old Emperor, and the whole paradigm shift from killing mutants to worshiping a ghoul as a living god.

And about the kerberos armor, it would be strictly weaker than power armor. An Enclave soldier in Mk2 power armor or Tesla armor will have superior protection, radiation resistance, strength, and probably firepower. A Brotherhood Paladin in Mk1 "brotherhood" power armor would have slightly better protection and greater strength, allowing again heavier weapons. But an Imperial soldier in Kerberos armor would beat the crap out of them in close combat due to martial arts training from birth and being more maneuverable in their armor. They'll also generally travel in larger groups and be better trained in both shooting and tactics.

[Angelsilhouette]

But the modern japanese government was installed promptly after they surrendered. MacArthur saw to that. (As well as making sure that Russia didn't move in and claim Japan, as they had full intention to do.)

[Koshinn]

But the modern japanese government was installed promptly after they surrendered. MacArthur saw to that. (As well as making sure that Russia didn't move in and claim Japan, as they had full intention to do.)

Right, but after all, at this point in the time line, a few important things happened that may have changed Japan back into a full monarchy:

1) Chinese aggression
2) Dissolving of the UN
3) Leaving their homeland and living in America as refugees
4) Nuclear apocalypse
5) Destruction of the host country's government for all intents and purposes
6) Finding themselves alone with a relatively small community

Honestly, the most efficient form of government is a monarchy or dictatorship. It just depends on who your leader is... and in a community where you're facing the harsh realities of a post-apocalyptic world and you already worship someone as a living god, it would be easy and for the best of the community if you just appoint him as leader and went forward like that. You can't waste time in a bureaucracy endlessly debating a topic and worrying about your re-election when you have someone that already commands the respect of everyone and can make the hard decisions for the good of the community.

[Angelsilhouette]

But the modern japanese government was installed promptly after they surrendered. MacArthur saw to that. (As well as making sure that Russia didn't move in and claim Japan, as they had full intention to do.)

Right, but after all, at this point in the time line, a few important things happened that may have changed Japan back into a full monarchy:

1) Chinese aggression
2) Dissolving of the UN
3) Leaving their homeland and living in America as refugees
4) Nuclear apocalypse
5) Destruction of the host country's government for all intents and purposes
6) Finding themselves alone with a relatively small community

Honestly, the most efficient form of government is a monarchy or dictatorship. It just depends on who your leader is... and in a community where you're facing the harsh realities of a post-apocalyptic world and you already worship someone as a living god, it would be easy and for the best of the community if you just appoint him as leader and went forward like that. You can't waste time in a bureaucracy endlessly debating a topic and worrying about your re-election when you have someone that already commands the respect of everyone and can make the hard decisions for the good of the community.

None of the triumvirate would be elected; the emperor is the emperor, the field marshall is the highest ranking military rank, and the lead scientist would be the seniormost and most accomplished scientist in her or his field. The latter two would, of course, be appointed by the emperor (Someone's got to pick the next field marshall or decide who out of her or his scientists is the best. So it would be like the three kings of Sparta. Sort of. >.>

I do see your point about the bureaucracy, I just don't think that 130 years after their empire was desolved and they progressed rather like our japan (as they have always been outside of the major influences like civil rights, the peace and love movement, the ambiguity of the american's generation X, etc. Japan has almost been a bubble nation and I really don't see that being any different in the fallout world. According to the fallout bible, China didn't become aggressive until the US cut them off from oil trading post 2000. It was only then that they became aggressive and invaded alaska to take the oil reserves for themselves. It just doesn't feel plausible that ~130 years of democratic government would just wash away like that. I would sooner believe that the military forces would assume control at first, as the entire group/community/contingent/whatever of Japanese that eventually turns into this kerberos force we're discussing would naturally turn to the military for leadership and not the son of the Emperor. From there I can imagine them eventually forming a type of governing body similar to the progression from US Army to Brotherhood of Steel.

Now perhaps the son of the Emperor was a high ranking military officer who, after several years and promotions, assumes control of the group; but I still don't see him declaring himself emperor as he would have more experience and life as regular army rather than as a living god. By that point, whether or not he was the son of the emperor would be moot because the people will have been acclimated to structure and rule given by the military as opposed to the democratic governments that vanished with the first bright flash on the horizon. Also, the military officers, NCOs and regulars would not immediately turn to him for guidance leadership or anything that overstepped his rank as major, captain, leftenant, etc. By the time the bombs fell it would be like the military in the UK turning to Queen Elizabeth or Prince Charles for leadership instead of the Prime Minister or Field Marshall. By the time the bombs fell in 2077, the memory of the great empire would be just that, a faded and distant memory. The Emperor would be thought of as a figurehead and very little serious thought would be put towards his leadership in such a grave situation, especially since he had never had any such responsibility before then.

[Koshinn]

None of the triumvirate would be elected; the emperor is the emperor, the field marshall is the highest ranking military rank, and the lead scientist would be the seniormost and most accomplished scientist in her or his field. The latter two would, of course, be appointed by the emperor (Someone's got to pick the next field marshall or decide who out of her or his scientists is the best. So it would be like the three kings of Sparta. Sort of. >.>

I really don't want a triumvirate. As you say, rivet city already has one and honestly, a scientist is not a leader in any way and shouldn't be considered a major political player. Sure, they're useful and their advice is very valued, but they're not leaders. An advisory council maybe, with representatives of the military, scientists of various fields, agriculturalists, farmers, teachers, etc.

I do see your point about the bureaucracy, I just don't think that 130 years after their empire was desolved and they progressed rather like our japan (as they have always been outside of the major influences like civil rights, the peace and love movement, the ambiguity of the american's generation X, etc. Japan has almost been a bubble nation and I really don't see that being any different in the fallout world. According to the fallout bible, China didn't become aggressive until the US cut them off from oil trading post 2000. It was only then that they became aggressive and invaded alaska to take the oil reserves for themselves. It just doesn't feel plausible that ~130 years of democratic government would just wash away like that. I would sooner believe that the military forces would assume control at first, as the entire group/community/contingent/whatever of Japanese that eventually turns into this kerberos force we're discussing would naturally turn to the military for leadership and not the son of the Emperor. From there I can imagine them eventually forming a type of governing body similar to the progression from US Army to Brotherhood of Steel.

The Empire was never really dissolved. The one term of Japanese surrender in WW2 was that the Emperor stayed the Emperor.

And why doesn't it seem plausible that after 130 years a democratic government would wash away? After the 300ish years of American democracy, we see dozens, if not hundreds of factions fighting for control of what remains of America. The Enclave definitely has the most legitimate claim, but the Brotherhood of Steel does as well - they definitely aren't a democracy. Raiders and slavers only want anarchy and survival of the fittest. Then you see all these little towns that don't give a crap about what government there is, as long as they're safe.

And I really would rather not draw parallels to existing entities in Fallout - creating something original would be my goal in this... being heavily influenced by the Kerberos saga, but not a direct ripoff in any way.

Now perhaps the son of the Emperor was a high ranking military officer who, after several years and promotions, assumes control of the group; but I still don't see him declaring himself emperor as he would have more experience and life as regular army rather than as a living god. By that point, whether or not he was the son of the emperor would be moot because the people will have been acclimated to structure and rule given by the military as opposed to the democratic governments that vanished with the first bright flash on the horizon. Also, the military officers, NCOs and regulars would not immediately turn to him for guidance leadership or anything that overstepped his rank as major, captain, leftenant, etc. By the time the bombs fell it would be like the military in the UK turning to Queen Elizabeth or Prince Charles for leadership instead of the Prime Minister or Field Marshall. By the time the bombs fell in 2077, the memory of the great empire would be just that, a faded and distant memory. The Emperor would be thought of as a figurehead and very little serious thought would be put towards his leadership in such a grave situation, especially since he had never had any such responsibility before then.

I was beginning to understand what you were saying and the very end nailed it dead on. You're thinking in a very Western mindset, where the Queen is just a rich human whose parents were also nobility. The Japanese are not like that. The Emperors of Japan are descendant from the sun god. Yes, they have a lot of human blood in them, but they also have the blood of a god flowing in their veins. Yes, the military would and does look up to the Emperor. In WW2, every weapon the Japanese military used personally belonged to the Emperor - they were on loan to the soldiers. They lived for the Emperor, they went to war for him, they died for him, and in the end, they surrendered because of him. If he hadn't told his people to surrender, they would have fought until the last man, woman and child was dead.

While the Emperor will never have direct military experience, he will have had tutors from an early age teach him about basically every aspect of society, these tutors being among the best in their field. The Emperor doesn't just sit on his throne all day, he has to be one of the most academic people in the world. Of course he'll have a General to lead his armies, as he'd have a Prime Minister to run the day-to-day operations of the civilian sector... but the national direction and objectives, the overarching strategy of the Japanese people, would be decided by the Emperor.

[Angelsilhouette]

I'm definitely going to do some more reading into the current role of the Emperor, but from what I have read so far, it seems that there are a lot of Christian (as well as other religions) Japanese that do not see the emperor as anything but a political figurehead and resent what political and religious influence he is already allowed; so it would seem that a great many of the people would not turn to the Emperor for leadership in a crisis and who would resent their government if it did.

However all of that may be moot depending on the answer to my next question:

Would the prince be allowed to live away from the royal residence in Japan?

[Stampede]

Please stick to the topic, which is an armour request.

Thanks guys.

Stampede
Moderator

[Angelsilhouette]

Please stick to the topic, which is an armour request.

Thanks guys.

Stampede
Moderator

We're trying to determine the structure of the japanese forces in the united states pre- and post-apocalypse. This mod is something that seems like it's going to be very very fun, and it's something we (or at least I) would like to see become a Total Conversion mod where the player starts as a member of this faction as opposed to being the vault dweller. So what we're talking about is relevant in that we are trying to come up with a social structure for the new and very influential faction we would like to add to the game; whether it should be martial or imperial.

However I do understand what you see beginning to happen.

Koshinn, perhaps when the models are done and the mod is closer to becoming something more than an idea, we should post a new thread with a vote option on whether or not the forces should have a martial rule, democratic rule or imperial rule, presenting the reasons for each in the body of the post.

[Stampede]

Please stick to the topic, which is an armour request.

Thanks guys.

Stampede
Moderator

We're trying to determine the structure of the japanese forces in the united states pre- and post-apocalypse. This mod is something that seems like it's going to be very very fun, and it's something we (or at least I) would like to see become a Total Conversion mod where the player starts as a member of this faction as opposed to being the vault dweller. So what we're talking about is relevant in that we are trying to come up with a social structure for the new and very influential faction we would like to add to the game; whether it should be martial or imperial.

However I do understand what you see beginning to happen.

Koshinn, perhaps when the models are done and the mod is closer to becoming something more than an idea, we should post a new thread with a vote option on whether or not the forces should have a martial rule, democratic rule or imperial rule, presenting the reasons for each in the body of the post.

I see, good luck with your mod then. Perhaps start a new thread? Or would the OP want me to rename this one? I just don't want to see someones thread 'jacked.

Stampede
Moderator

[Angelsilhouette]

Please stick to the topic, which is an armour request.

Thanks guys.

Stampede
Moderator

We're trying to determine the structure of the japanese forces in the united states pre- and post-apocalypse. This mod is something that seems like it's going to be very very fun, and it's something we (or at least I) would like to see become a Total Conversion mod where the player starts as a member of this faction as opposed to being the vault dweller. So what we're talking about is relevant in that we are trying to come up with a social structure for the new and very influential faction we would like to add to the game; whether it should be martial or imperial.

However I do understand what you see beginning to happen.

Koshinn, perhaps when the models are done and the mod is closer to becoming something more than an idea, we should post a new thread with a vote option on whether or not the forces should have a martial rule, democratic rule or imperial rule, presenting the reasons for each in the body of the post.

I see, good luck with your mod then. Perhaps start a new thread? Or would the OP want me to rename this one? I just don't want to see someones thread 'jacked.

Stampede
Moderator

By no means do we want to hijack the thread. We want to see the armour that the OP mentioned just as much as he does, however we also want it to be included with an extensive mod to immerse the armour into a well thought out and captivating story that people will want to become involved with.