219 replies to this topic

[PolyphonyVibrato]

Also, the Dunmer seem very. very uninterested in the Thalmor, why do you think Malborn fled there? Even so, they've still not recovered from the Red Year. My bet is that the best they could do is occasionally raid the border.

"The more troops the Empire send to Skyrim, the easier it will be to take". Are you talking about the Empire, or the Thalmor? That just seems out of place.

However, warfare is more than numbers. in fact, numbers can be a severe weakness. If a general becomes complacent in the fact that he outnumbers the enemy 10 to 1, he will fail (Cannae, for example).


And i suppose I'll nitpick about the fascist king part (if you don;t mind ) Fascism is a modern term for a reactionary, militant, petty bourgeois movement. The Stormcloaks are revolutionary, and the TES universe is stuck in a semi-feudal society, creating significant problems for such a movement.

Melbourne left because Morrowind is a solitary stat with no immediate ties to any other nation and is a perfect hiding spot for anyone trying to avoid taking a knife to the throat. They're definitely not friends with the Thalmor, but they're still of the Mer. Can't really say I disagree.

I was referring to the Empires forces being spread to thin to effectively combat the Thalmor on the South-West. Due to the terms of the treaty I doubt they have a very sizable force stationed in Anvil.

Numbers are not everything true, but we're dealing with Elves. They may be rude, overconfident and arrogant but I don't see them as ever being complacent, they're not as prone to apathy as are the men. I also don't see them fighting a battle where with more troops than they feel necessary. I think the Altmer generally fight more effectively in small groups of 6-10 they need different mages to play different roles, without getting in each others way. If they're forced into open combat they still prove to be more than the typical Imperial Soldier can handle. I see the Thalmor army as being comprised of almost special forces. There aren't as many, they all live to be very old and don't take unnecessary chances.

Lastly, I don't see how you can say it's not fascism? From the Oxford American Dictionary: "Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader, and a strong demagogic approach." Revolution is a part of the package deal. They may be fairly monarchial, but they still fit this category.

[RighthandofSithis]

Also, the Dunmer seem very. very uninterested in the Thalmor, why do you think Malborn fled there? Even so, they've still not recovered from the Red Year. My bet is that the best they could do is occasionally raid the border.

"The more troops the Empire send to Skyrim, the easier it will be to take". Are you talking about the Empire, or the Thalmor? That just seems out of place.

However, warfare is more than numbers. in fact, numbers can be a severe weakness. If a general becomes complacent in the fact that he outnumbers the enemy 10 to 1, he will fail (Cannae, for example).


And i suppose I'll nitpick about the fascist king part (if you don;t mind ) Fascism is a modern term for a reactionary, militant, petty bourgeois movement. The Stormcloaks are revolutionary, and the TES universe is stuck in a semi-feudal society, creating significant problems for such a movement.

Melbourne left because Morrowind is a solitary stat with no immediate ties to any other nation and is a perfect hiding spot for anyone trying to avoid taking a knife to the throat. They're definitely not friends with the Thalmor, but they're still of the Mer. Can't really say I disagree.

I was referring to the Empires forces being spread to thin to effectively combat the Thalmor on the South-West. Due to the terms of the treaty I doubt they have a very sizable force stationed in Anvil.

Numbers are not everything true, but we're dealing with Elves. They may be rude, overconfident and arrogant but I don't see them as ever being complacent, they're not as prone to apathy as are the men. I also don't see them fighting a battle where with more troops than they feel necessary. I think the Altmer generally fight more effectively in small groups of 6-10 they need different mages to play different roles, without getting in each others way. If they're forced into open combat they still prove to be more than the typical Imperial Soldier can handle. I see the Thalmor army as being comprised of almost special forces. There aren't as many, they all live to be very old and don't take unnecessary chances.

Lastly, I don't see how you can say it's not fascism? From the Oxford American Dictionary: "Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader, and a strong demagogic approach." Revolution is a part of the package deal. They may be fairly monarchial, but they still fit this category.

"Melbourne". I hate to be pedantic, but I must insist you spell it correctly. As an Australian, when I saw the word Melbourne, I immediately thought of the capital city of Victoria (a state in Australia).

I can't see why the Aldmeri Army would be composed entirely of special forces that work in groups of 6-10. Thats much more of a guerrilla style of organisation (or Mongol). they seem to be much more conventional (albeit, incredibly manipulative). When they were forced on to an open playing field, it became evident that they were, in fact, weaker than Imperial and Nordic soldiers (at Red Ring, The Nords were facing them on 2 fronts [?], and still held firm).

And onto fascism, this will sound very nerdy, and out of place :

As described by the political theorist and revolutionary, Leon Trotsky, fascism is a petty bourgeois (small business owner) movement, with leaders from the rank and file. It spouts revolutionary jargon 9and in some respects, requires a 'revolution'), however, it is considered (by marxists [or at least trotskyists]) to be reactionary, as it ultimately defends the capitalist system (in a deformed manner), and thus blocks the proletarian (working class) revolution (which, unlike fascism, is TRULY revolutionary, it brings about the downfall of capitalism, and replaces it with a completly different system, socialism).

If you want to read more, here's a link to Trotsky's "Fascism: What it is and how to fight it.": http://www.marxists....44/1944-fas.htm



Ulfric is more of a feudalist, supporting the power of the Jarls, and it also incorporates racism.

Edited by RighthandofSithis, 10 December 2012 - 06:48 AM.

[BrettM]

Firstly, my point was that Malborn was fleeing for protection. I Know he is a bosmer, and about the Purges.

My mistake. I had misread your remark as a reference to Malborn fleeing to Skyrim, but I see now you were talking about his later flight to Morrowind after "Diplomatic Immunity." Time to brush up on my reading comprehension skills.

[UrgeNexus]

Firstly, my point was that Malborn was fleeing for protection. I Know he is a bosmer, and about the Purges.

My mistake. I had misread your remark as a reference to Malborn fleeing to Skyrim, but I see now you were talking about his later flight to Morrowind after "Diplomatic Immunity." Time to brush up on my reading comprehension skills.

And on that note, I want to clarify something regarding the Dunmer and Thalmor relationship.

They generally don't like eachother at all. Before they were cursed by Azura and became the Dunmer, the elves of Morrowind were known as Chimer (The Changed Ones), a splinter group of Aldmer (precursors to all the elven species, Altmer, Bosmer, Orsimer, Dwemer and Dunmer) who worshipped the Daedra instead of the Aldmeri version of the Divines. They just didn't get along, which is why the Chimer went as far away from Alinor (Summerset Isles) as they possible could, ending up in what is now Morrowind.

That's why I think it's safe to say that there's little to no chance of the Dunmer ever joining the Dominion or cooperating with the Thalmor in any way. "They are elves" is not a valid argument here, because while they share common ancestry like all elves, their cultures and religious views are radically different. The Thalmor view mortal existance as a prison they must escape, the Dunmer view it as a challenge to endure.

The only likely allies the Thalmor have are already part of the Dominion, neither of them by choice. Valenwood was taken with a politcal coup and has a fairly fervent resistance going on as far as I know. The Khajiit were basically tricked into joining the Dominion when the moons dissapeared and the Thalmor falsely claimed to have brought them back. The other nations mostly hate the Thalmor and Black Marsh just doesn't care at all unless they threaten their territory.

Obviously I didn't go far into the lore behind the Altmer-Dunmer relationship, but it's freely available and eay to find at The Imperial Library or UESP and several other sources. if you're interested then i suggest reading up on it yourself.

[luzburg]

The Forsworn have infiltrated every aspect of Markarth's infrastructure before the Dovahkiin cleans house, they're obviously good at this sort of thing.

Not to mention that the Silverbloods own the mines, so it's really easy for them to help the Forsworn to "infiltrate". The mining overseers answer to the Silverbloods, so even if they have suspicions about one of the miners and talk to Thonar about it, he'll probably tell them something along the lines of "I'm not paying you to think, now shut up and get back to work before I name someone else overseer." Or maybe the overseers simply know about Thonar's arangement with the Forsworn and they are actually in on it.

With all this in mind though, after the death of Madanach, there is no control over the Forsworn whatsoever. While without a leader (perhaps that was the point of resurrecting the Red Eagle?) they will be stunned for a while, but they will replace Madanch, and their revolt will increase, but they will no longer have protection in the city of markarth.

The Matriarch controls the tribes. Shes obviously some sort of Head Hagraven.

Ehm did you visit Markarth at all during the game?

Are you suggesting that a city is the same thing as a mine?

I'm saying that disgruntled miners can easily be turned towards making themselves martyrs against the Nords.

[sajuukkhar9000]

The Matriarch controls the tribes. Shes obviously some sort of Head Hagraven.

Actually, as far as I gathered from the various notes, there is no lead Matriarch, each "clan", so to speak, of forsworn has their own matriarch Hagraven.

either that or the Hagraven in Hag's end is the Matriarch, at which point shes most lieky dead also.

Edited by sajuukkhar9000, 10 December 2012 - 03:46 PM.

[luzburg]

The Matriarch controls the tribes. Shes obviously some sort of Head Hagraven.

Actually, as far as I gathered from the various notes, there is no lead Matriarch, each "clan", so to speak, of forsworn has their own matriarch Hagraven.

either that or the Hagraven in Hag's end is the Matriarch, at which point shes most lieky dead also.

Maybe. That being said I believe that the Matriarch referred to by a note I found in one of the camps is a seperate, potentially DLC material entity. It says gather the clans. That suggests its not simply in charge of one clan.

[PolyphonyVibrato]

"Melbourne". I hate to be pedantic, but I must insist you spell it correctly. As an Australian, when I saw the word Melbourne, I immediately thought of the capital city of Victoria (a state in Australia).

I can't see why the Aldmeri Army would be composed entirely of special forces that work in groups of 6-10. Thats much more of a guerrilla style of organisation (or Mongol). they seem to be much more conventional (albeit, incredibly manipulative). When they were forced on to an open playing field, it became evident that they were, in fact, weaker than Imperial and Nordic soldiers (at Red Ring, The Nords were facing them on 2 fronts [?], and still held firm).

And onto fascism, this will sound very nerdy, and out of place :

As described by the political theorist and revolutionary, Leon Trotsky, fascism is a petty bourgeois (small business owner) movement, with leaders from the rank and file. It spouts revolutionary jargon 9and in some respects, requires a 'revolution'), however, it is considered (by marxists [or at least trotskyists]) to be reactionary, as it ultimately defends the capitalist system (in a deformed manner), and thus blocks the proletarian (working class) revolution (which, unlike fascism, is TRULY revolutionary, it brings about the downfall of capitalism, and replaces it with a completly different system, socialism).

If you want to read more, here's a link to Trotsky's "Fascism: What it is and how to fight it.": http://www.marxists....44/1944-fas.htm



Ulfric is more of a feudalist, supporting the power of the Jarls, and it also incorporates racism.

Haha, yeah I know it's Malborn, Must have autocorrected or something. ^_^

Maybe you're right about Aldmeri tactics, I may very well be mixing different lores in my head. I have no idea what Red Wing is either.

As for quoting Trotsky, I'm sorry, but are you quoting a Marxist with the intent of explaining Fascism and are you saying that Proletarian revolution is good? I'm going to drop this one because I don't feel like getting into a political discussion on the nexus. =P

[RighthandofSithis]

The Matriarch controls the tribes. Shes obviously some sort of Head Hagraven.

Actually, as far as I gathered from the various notes, there is no lead Matriarch, each "clan", so to speak, of forsworn has their own matriarch Hagraven.

either that or the Hagraven in Hag's end is the Matriarch, at which point shes most lieky dead also.

Maybe. That being said I believe that the Matriarch referred to by a note I found in one of the camps is a seperate, potentially DLC material entity. It says gather the clans. That suggests its not simply in charge of one clan.

No, I feel that suggests that the matriach of that clan has suggested that her Briarheart should call the other clans together in an attempt to take Fort Sunguard.

[luzburg]

LinkSerpents Bluff Note

I guess its open to interpretation. People can make up their own minds.