18 replies to this topic

[DDigit]

In the previous topic, Living Wasteland - Caravans and Packs (Link), I described how trading caravans and raiding parties could make the wasteland a little bit more dynamic and fun. This involves mainly the creation and modification of caravans. I also described how retarded the wastelanders must be to have achieved so little in some two-hundred years.

To make the caravans and raiding parties work even better, (and to make the wastelanders seem slightly less retarded) there would need to be some more settlements and outposts. Also, they'd need some actual protection. With all the raiders and deathclaws around i was pretty surprised to see some very small and virtually unprotected settlements (very unlikely after 200 years).

So this module is the part of the mod that requires heavy modding to the landscape. I'm not saying new places should be created, there's already too much in too little space imho, but current places can be fortified and expanded (and there's more than a few nearly empty/unused places). Adding some sandbags, junk fortifications (like towers and bunkers), guards, turrets, robots, houses and traders would do the trick. Then all you'd have to do is put that place on the caravan and raiding party's routes (and mark some folks as essential) and you've got some great dynamic gameplay. Add some repeatable escort/rob/defend/pillage quests and you could keep entertained for a long long time. (edit: optional: like in the defense of big town, a quest where you get a couple of different options to make defenses for the town would be more awesome than i can put to words between these two humble brackets )

Also, the number of random encounters i've had is pretty low (I've yet to meet Uncle Leo). Perhaps it might be a good idea to make a few more random encounter "spots". I assume we'll be seeing plenty of user-made random encounters soon (since they would seem easy to make), so it might be handy for the future.

I would LOVE to see Evergreen Mills turned into New Reno and to have some equivalent of vault city, but that would be beyond the scope of this mod. I'm thinking about reasonably small modifications to existing places. If you know some good places that might be made more exciting this way, or are simply begging to be used, post them here! (here's one, fortify the hall at the underworld entrance with sandbags, turrets and guards)


The challenge: Think up the best place and defense set-up for a (spectacular) raid or mutant attack.


If you think a modular Living wasteland mod is a good idea and want to support it by posting your own ideas for a module (for example, weather effects), call your post Living wasteland - "subject". Mind you, the purpose of this mod is to create a more dynamic and "living" wasteland, not to add weapons, armor, models etc. Also, it would be preferable to make this mod in such a way that it could be integrated into or run together with later overhaul mods.


Other Living Wasteland topics:

Caravans and packs Link
Lord of the wastes (quest module) Link

[fourtylashes]

It's good. Fortified, well-maintained cities (which F3 doesn't really have) offer a lot of immersion, especially if all the characters have good dialogue or quest options. I don't like the fact I can slaughter an entire town with a gun and some intelligence (I remember entering Vault City in F2 and finding the idea of attacking it by myself laughable [I would be slaughtered]).

The "Caravans" are also laughable in F3, just some mutant cow and two people shuffling around. Again, I robbed them easily.

I'd like to see some modified robot guardians, more scientific geniuses working to restore humanity... a Vault City would be perfect, though probably beyond us right now. Turning Rivet into an actual city would be great (one with actual security... like the doors all lock if the guards catch you).

Killing a guard shouldn't result in instant enemies with a city, so long as others don't see you do it.

Let's stay away from psychic instant-spawning guards like Oblivion, but giving the guards an upgrade in lethality would be great. The Sheriff should be way more powerful than currently.

Besides for the balancing parts, I'd love to see some raiders actually raiding. Fallout settlements should be forced to defend themselves from raiders either attacking head on, or sneaking in and murdering people.

I'd love to see a raider gang that uses refurbished bikes (the ones you can blow up in the cap wasteland).

We could really use some more stark-raving-mad fallout citizens, too. People who think they're kings and queens. I'd love to see a guy who thinks he's Captain Ahab (and cut off his own foot to do it). Different literary figures personified (I honestly expected to find Tinker Bell or Peter Pan in Lamplight).

Also, Slavers could use a slave caravan (who buys all those slaves?) which you could help/hinder. Helping the slavers should have a huge impact on the Fallout world, more and more people disappearing and being kidnapped... I'd love to interact with the slaves, giving them orders or throwing them bones to chew.

A settlement of sentiient robots would be cool, too (by settlement, I mean a group hiding somewhere, not a town -- the wasteland is already cluttered as it is).

[Thelionheart]

Awesome idea, I agree with all of your points except for the slaver part. There are already slaver caravans in the game. I just helped some slaves get out of slavery a day ago because some idiotic slavers came across me.

[Asrayl]

Personally I agree with the slaver caravan idea, it needs to be more than a handful of slavers with assault rifles marching randomly across the wasteland with a captive or two that you can't interact with in any meaningful way.

We should be able to buy people, sell people, have slave caravans operate like merchant caravans, know their route, know their schedules, know when and where to be somewhere with that semi-automatic... or fresh meat if that's your path.

We should be able to really interact with Paradise Falls, Big Town, and Megaton.

If (Spoiler)

Spoiler

we take care of big town, it should have them build fortifications, make it a better place, have a caravan show up, and some merchants in-town. It shouldn't just be some dump, I mean, I sure as hell would find somewhere else to go, wouldn't you?

If (spoiler)

Spoiler

we buy the slaves, we should be given the option to take them with us or free them, y'know? We should have the choice to take them back home, and make them sweep up or whatever. The details don't matter just that we should be able to interact with them in a more meaningful way than we are now. IF we capture a new slave, we should be able to keep them, sell them, have them carry our heavy junk across the bloody unfriendly wilderness. We should have control!

If (spoiler)

Spoiler

We fix megaton's water pipes, and bring X scrap metal, the water should become more pure. People should start commenting on it, the guy outside the gates should be inside, enjoying a glass. If we disarm the bomb, we should have the option of having it removed from the town, and have people using the spot to try and grow something. Which gives me an idea about Oasis.

If (spoiler)

Spoiler

We go to Oasis and choose to accelerate the growth and spread, we should be given the option to plant trees in selected places, (particularly in towns.) and have them grow. (Via a time-controlled script?) We should be able to do more with it than they gave us. I want to see Oasis druids tending the planted trees. I want to see people marveling at the sight.

I want options that allow me to interact with the world and change it. And more than just turning X place into Y bloodbath or Z crater. I want to do something that feels meaningful. I want to be an instrument of change, good, or bad, I want that control.

[fenon]

Maybe after the raider etc attacks have the town medics going around healing the survivors, to give the game a sense of healing after the attacks. With slavers maybe they could take random people from the towns, including important quest characters so that you may have to go out and find the slaver camps and either kill them and take slaves back or buy them to be able to finish quests. And have NPC's buying slaves (If thats possible) so by some chance you could find that Burke has been taken as a slave and Slimm has bought him for example, I haven't seen any slaves in towns anyway you'd think there would be some.

Larger parties of roaming Raiders so that we have to avoid Raiders rather than just quickly killing the 3-4 raiders, maybe have 10 - 20 in a group, it would also make using rocket launchers a little more important. It would also make random encounters of different groups more interesting, 10 BoS fighting 20 Raiders. Perhaps have Raiders actually take towns having survivors camping somewhere near the towns or even travel to other towns.

For wastelanders and other towns people, maybe they could travel between towns, so you don't automatically know where they are. Perhaps the Tallon company could be hired to defend towns, join you or be paid to attack places. You don't see many wastelanders, perhaps they could wonder around in large groups, like wondering towns with Caravans.

Maybe you could even take the storyline out of the game and just make it an endless sand box game, where people die and are replaced with other people (Randomly generated faces clothes and names fitting the type of group they are in). So you could kill everyone in a town, then come back in a few days and find that a completely different group has taken that town, perhaps even have raiders attacks complete wipe out towns and they move in. That way you could even be anyone, you could become an actual raider (Maybe even form a group of raiders), take towns and turn followers into towns people (Basically walk around and defend the town) and then when you need them you can ask them to follow you. You could also then leave some people in the towns to defend from raiders/slavers/anybody actually, I don't think wastelanders would have any problem attacking other wastelanders and taking their homes.

[GamerForever]

Yeah I love these ideas. And I agree with fenon, it would be awsome to start a new game without the MQ.

But could a mod like this actually be done? Sounds to me like ur going to need a good scripter to get all this to work together.

[DDigit]

It's nice to see your enthusiasm but I think some of you guys are getting a little bit carried away.

The aim here is simply to ADD some structures and people to existing places and mark some people as essential. In the case of an attack inside of Megaton, a succesfull attack would simply end with a lot of dead guards, wastelanders (who should respawn after a while), and a lot of unconscious essential ppl (who wake up again later,no quests broken). Also to add some realism (and quests) to raiding, you could simply put killable/robable new trader(s) just in/outside the megaton entrance (or wherever you want to have a raid). The first raids i will create will be only on the outside of the entrances of Megaton and Rivet City.

Changing anything to existing quest characters or the main quest line or any place really special for the main quest is NOT the idea.
Adding verhicles is NOT the idea (I do want them tho ).
Breaking the main quest line is NOT the idea. (you reallywant a Living wasteland mod to do that? prolly better get another mod or... just dont do the quest ))
Getting existing quest characters "kidnapped" so you have to save them is NOT the idea. (can you imagine the number of broken quests and bugs?)
Having the whole town taken over by raiders and making them a joinable faction is NOT the idea.

Why? Sure some of these suggestions are really awesome, but..... Well like I said it would be preferable to make this mod work with or be integrated into other mods (like overhaul mods). Mods should stick to their intended purpose and should not cross into the territory of other mods. Breaking quests and screwing up quest character scripts by fiddling with them is (very) unwise and time-consuming (and compatibility-busting). Simply make some new npcs and let them get killed .

Also, although I'd like to see a 10vs10 battle somewhere, I think wandering groups that size wouldn't really fit well into the already crowded wasteland (edit: ive been experimenting and groups might be slightly larger). Maybe if it was only 1 big group per faction, like a "war party", it might be ok. edit: you now what, those war parties actually sound pretty awesome (mutant war party with a behemoth :O). Let's talk about those in the Caravans and Packs topic (Link)

[BulletSix]

yes please

even one or two such settlements with recurring attacks on them (be it from Raiders because they have a pure water source or a growhouse with fresh plants, or some supermutants, Slave hunters, a pack of molerats, wild Dogs or a (more or less) large gouhl attack) and one or two traders would be very nice
Methinks that would be easier on a place w/o extra cell, but i can be wrong about that

[DDigit]

I've been creating some attacks in and outside megaton using the console. The results have been very very interesting. I've added some guards (slavers with either smg/huntingrifle/chassrifle who happened to have an appropriate ai script to be decent guards), some turrets (which thankfully are treated as any other creature) and a lot of different attacking parties.

I havent found any decent raiders yet but i've been very entertained with varying parties of ghouls, super mutants, deathclaws and the like. My Pc also managed to pull off spawning some 150 feral ghouls inside of megaton, fun!

When the fights are bigger and more hectic, the AI actually proves to be more fun than i'd given it credit for. The attacks start quickly, people start ducking,running, shouting, grabbing their guns and shooting. With some 6 or more party members they actually seem to start flanking and strafing like theyve got a purpose (ofcourse theyre probably just trying to get out of each others way).

Also, when a battle starts turning bad or if theyre badly outnumbered, the guards panic and flee screaming stuff i hadnt really heard much before.

It kinda makes you wonder why beth hasn't made some more big battles and raids.

[Midicow]

They were saving it for a DLC to be released later.