90 replies to this topic

[luzburg]

Why is it that any thread that only slightly references the Stormcloaks is always somehow completely about them? There are plenty of threads already about the Civil War. I had only used the previous factions, as a means to move the conversation to about the 2 new factions in Dragonborn: The Rieklings and the Thirsk. Does anyone have any information about them? Also, yes, the Thalmor wanted Ulfric to rebel against the Empire. However, that milk has already been spilled (as it were), so there's little point to talk about that, now. Currently, according to the Thalmor Dossier, any decisive victory in Skyrim would damage the Thalmor goals, so as long as you, the Dragonborn, finish the war ASAP regardless of which side wins, it would be fighting against the Thalmor. Although, in terms of short-term effects, a Stormcloak victory seems to end up with more dead Thalmor.

A stormcloak victory means even more fighting between Cyrodiil and Skyrim. Do you think the Empire is just going to sit back and take the loss? Do you think the bitterness will end with a stormcloak victory?


As for your main question... the DLC isn't out yet so why spoil it for yourself

[MidbossVyers]

Well, Cyrus killing Richton resulted in a peace treaty between Hammerfell and the Empire, didn't it? The Empire seems to be much more negotiable when they're losing. Also, are Ulfric's actions against the Forsworn really so different from the Colonists' actions against Africans and Native Americans while still rebelling against England? Not saying either one was right, but I just see parallels.

Edited by MidbossVyers, 08 January 2013 - 06:26 PM.

[luzburg]

Well, Cyrus killing Richton resulted in a peace treaty between Hammerfell and the Empire, didn't it? The Empire seems to be much more negotiable when they're losing. Also, are Ulfric's actions against the Forsworn really so different from the Colonists' actions against Africans and Native Americans while still rebelling against England? Not saying either one was right, but I just see parallels.

I'm an Oblivion baby. You are going way before my time hehe.
Good point on the colonists. Fighting for freedom but enslaving others. Worse than Ulfric by far really. you just made me realise how mild my dislike is for him lol.

[RighthandofSithis]

Why is it that any thread that only slightly references the Stormcloaks is always somehow completely about them? There are plenty of threads already about the Civil War. I had only used the previous factions, as a means to move the conversation to about the 2 new factions in Dragonborn: The Rieklings and the Thirsk. Does anyone have any information about them? Also, yes, the Thalmor wanted Ulfric to rebel against the Empire. However, that milk has already been spilled (as it were), so there's little point to talk about that, now. Currently, according to the Thalmor Dossier, any decisive victory in Skyrim would damage the Thalmor goals, so as long as you, the Dragonborn, finish the war ASAP regardless of which side wins, it would be fighting against the Thalmor. Although, in terms of short-term effects, a Stormcloak victory seems to end up with more dead Thalmor.

A stormcloak victory means even more fighting between Cyrodiil and Skyrim. Do you think the Empire is just going to sit back and take the loss? Do you think the bitterness will end with a stormcloak victory?


As for your main question... the DLC isn't out yet so why spoil it for yourself

Well, the rebellion in Hammerfell has already been mentioned, but I still think its worth noting that the Empire couldn't.

For a start, it would be much harder for them to enter Skyrim with no foothold in it. They, like everyone else, will have to walk through the narrow mountain passes, and could be stopped by a Nordic Phalanx (Numbers mean nothing in those tight spaces).

And then the impact in Cyrodiil. If my logic is correct, Cyrodiil is still being plagued by Gang Violence. The complete lack of the Army will simply make these wars escalate, or restart. And then there is the matter of will they risk weakening their defenses with the Dominion?

[ZagreustheLiar]

A stormcloak victory means even more fighting between Cyrodiil and Skyrim. Do you think the Empire is just going to sit back and take the loss? Do you think the bitterness will end with a stormcloak victory?

Just like how the Soviets went back to Afghanistan, right? Just like how the Empire went back to Hammerfell? I can tell you didn't get your college credits in international relations.

[luzburg]

A stormcloak victory means even more fighting between Cyrodiil and Skyrim. Do you think the Empire is just going to sit back and take the loss? Do you think the bitterness will end with a stormcloak victory?

Just like how the Soviets went back to Afghanistan, right? Just like how the Empire went back to Hammerfell? I can tell you didn't get your college credits in international relations.

Oh you.
Heres some of mine, with a more relevant timeline

1. Just like England allowed Scotland to remain as a free country after Wallace drove them out? Scotland was hardly hospitable.
2. Just like Frederick Barbarossa allowed Italy to remain independent from the Holy Roman Empire after they rebelled three times? He did on the Fifth obviously due to the incredible wealth coming into the cities of the Lombard League. Skyrim has no such trade network. They are totally isolated and dependant on the East Empire Company for commerce.
3. The crusades. I know it was a holy war but they didn't stop trying.

Thats all I can conjure from my memory right now but I'll be sure to get googling later

[ZagreustheLiar]

A stormcloak victory means even more fighting between Cyrodiil and Skyrim. Do you think the Empire is just going to sit back and take the loss? Do you think the bitterness will end with a stormcloak victory?

Just like how the Soviets went back to Afghanistan, right? Just like how the Empire went back to Hammerfell? I can tell you didn't get your college credits in international relations.

Oh you.
Heres some of mine, with a more relevant timeline

1. Just like England allowed Scotland to remain as a free country after Wallace drove them out? Scotland was hardly hospitable.
2. Just like Frederick Barbarossa allowed Italy to remain independent from the Holy Roman Empire after they rebelled three times? He did on the Fifth obviously due to the incredible wealth coming into the cities of the Lombard League. Skyrim has no such trade network. They are totally isolated and dependant on the East Empire Company for commerce.
3. The crusades. I know it was a holy war but they didn't stop trying.

Thats all I can conjure from my memory right now but I'll be sure to get googling later

All of your examples are dildos. Feudal states are organized in a completely different manner, one that is almost wholly specialized in providing men and materiel for armed forces. Feudal states are much better at withstanding prolonged war as opposed to more or less centralized states like the Empire who employ professional standing armies and a large bureaucracy. After their humiliating defeat to the Aldmeri Dominion, being shamed by the successful resistance of the Redguards and a successful rebellion in Skyrim I doubt they'll have much more appetite for war.

[luzburg]

A stormcloak victory means even more fighting between Cyrodiil and Skyrim. Do you think the Empire is just going to sit back and take the loss? Do you think the bitterness will end with a stormcloak victory?

Just like how the Soviets went back to Afghanistan, right? Just like how the Empire went back to Hammerfell? I can tell you didn't get your college credits in international relations.

Oh you.
Heres some of mine, with a more relevant timeline

1. Just like England allowed Scotland to remain as a free country after Wallace drove them out? Scotland was hardly hospitable.
2. Just like Frederick Barbarossa allowed Italy to remain independent from the Holy Roman Empire after they rebelled three times? He did on the Fifth obviously due to the incredible wealth coming into the cities of the Lombard League. Skyrim has no such trade network. They are totally isolated and dependant on the East Empire Company for commerce.
3. The crusades. I know it was a holy war but they didn't stop trying.

Thats all I can conjure from my memory right now but I'll be sure to get googling later

All of your examples are dildos. Feudal states are organized in a completely different manner, one that is almost wholly specialized in providing men and materiel for armed forces. Feudal states are much better at withstanding prolonged war as opposed to more or less centralized states like the Empire who employ professional standing armies and a large bureaucracy. After their humiliating defeat to the Aldmeri Dominion, being shamed by the successful resistance of the Redguards and a successful rebellion in Skyrim I doubt they'll have much more appetite for war.

Right I'm not going to continue this. You've become increasinly insulting as this went on and beside that you haven't convinced me I'm totally wrong. I'll leave it to others to continue this if they want.

[fraquar]

Why is it that any thread that only slightly references the Stormcloaks is always somehow completely about them? There are plenty of threads already about the Civil War. I had only used the previous factions, as a means to move the conversation to about the 2 new factions in Dragonborn: The Rieklings and the Thirsk. Does anyone have any information about them? Also, yes, the Thalmor wanted Ulfric to rebel against the Empire. However, that milk has already been spilled (as it were), so there's little point to talk about that, now. Currently, according to the Thalmor Dossier, any decisive victory in Skyrim would damage the Thalmor goals, so as long as you, the Dragonborn, finish the war ASAP regardless of which side wins, it would be fighting against the Thalmor. Although, in terms of short-term effects, a Stormcloak victory seems to end up with more dead Thalmor.

A stormcloak victory means even more fighting between Cyrodiil and Skyrim. Do you think the Empire is just going to sit back and take the loss? Do you think the bitterness will end with a stormcloak victory?


As for your main question... the DLC isn't out yet so why spoil it for yourself

There is no Empire if they lose Skyrim. That is pretty much evident in the Empire's inability to send troops to put down the rebellion.

Is that a good thing? Maybe, but it certainly isn't the end of Tamriel as we know it.

Skyrim (under Stormcloak rule) doesn't oppose an Empire, it opposes THIS Empire. It saw them sell Hammerfell short, it saw them sell Skyrim short and it saw them throw away everything they had fought for in the Great War.

Stormcloaks uniting Skyrim doesn't mean they will never be a member of an Empire again. Thats narrow thinking.

[Falconian]

Empire is dead and Hammerfall/Skyrim rebelled against it due to selling off their allies' religions and lands to save themselves.
The choice is pretty much Cyrodil vs Skyrim and of course I pick Nords as it's their land.