34 replies to this topic

[sajuukkhar9000]

With this in mind, the strongest Daedric Princes are Dagon, Azura, Boethia and Sheogorath. Hercine is likely the weakest, and not even seen as a Prince by the other Daedra, and Malacath, while more powerful than, say, Hercine or Clavicus Vile, is viewd as an outsider because he sorta changed teams after the fact.

Actually its Peryite, and Malacath, who are not viewed as princes by the other princes, not Hircine.

Also, the notion of a "strongest" Daedra is absurd IMO, all of the Daedra have a chance of winning against the others depending on the situation.

Edited by sajuukkhar9000, 24 January 2013 - 06:35 PM.

[UrgeNexus]

With this in mind, the strongest Daedric Princes are Dagon, Azura, Boethia and Sheogorath. Hercine is likely the weakest, and not even seen as a Prince by the other Daedra, and Malacath, while more powerful than, say, Hercine or Clavicus Vile, is viewd as an outsider because he sorta changed teams after the fact.

Actually its Peryite, and Malacath, who are not viewed as princes by the other princes, not Hircine.

Also, the notion of a "strongest" Daedra is absurd IMO, all of the Daedra have a chance of winning against the others depending on the situation.

As far as I know, peryite is acknowledged as a prince, just the weakest one. Malacath is technically not a Daedra at all, but this fits his sphere perfectly, being the patron of pariahs and outcasts.

Hircine is in no way weak, he simply has a very specific sphere, the Hunt. While he meddles with mortals quite a lot, he always strives to give them a chance, otherwise where's the fun right? If the prey can easily elude it's hunter or the hunter can easily catch his prey, what's the point? This may lead to other Princes seeing Hircine as weak, Molag Bal for example would not give mortals a fighting chance because it doesn't fit in his sphere of domination, so Hircine may seem weak to Bal. Then again, everyone seems weak to Molag Bal, that's what he's all about.

[sajuukkhar9000]

As far as I know, peryite is acknowledged as a prince, just the weakest one. Malacath is technically not a Daedra at all, but this fits his sphere perfectly, being the patron of pariahs and outcasts.

Hircine is in no way weak, he simply has a very specific sphere, the Hunt. While he meddles with mortals quite a lot, he always strives to give them a chance, otherwise where's the fun right? If the prey can easily elude it's hunter or the hunter can easily catch his prey, what's the point? This may lead to other Princes seeing Hircine as weak, Molag Bal for example would not give mortals a fighting chance because it doesn't fit in his sphere of domination, so Hircine may seem weak to Bal. Then again, everyone seems weak to Molag Bal, that's what he's all about.

It depends on the source really, some places have named Peryite as a prince, while others have said hes just a really powerful daedra that the other princes dont really consider a prince.

Also, Meredia, Sheogorath, and Dagon, aren't real Deadra either, but they are considered princes. With Meredia being a Magna Ge, Sheogorath being a fragment of Lorkhan, and Dagon originally being a leaper demon.

But if I had to pick one Daedra as the strongest, I would have to choose Dagon. Dagon has been through so much more, and survived, then any other Daedric Prince. Dagon, who overthrew the Dreugh empire, smashed Molag bal's coldharbor into bits, and freed the world.

Edited by sajuukkhar9000, 24 January 2013 - 07:20 PM.

[Lachdonin]

Well, The Imperial Library won't load for me right now, so i can't pull up the source, but one of the referance books about the Daedra refers to Hercine as an obscure lesser being refered to in some limited mythos but not recognised as a true Daedric Prince. I beleive its the same one that mentiones Jyggalag.

Regardless, strength is a relative thing with the Daedra, and tend sto flucuate with the amount of beleif present in the world. I put Azura and Boethia on the list, because they are viewed as literal gods by the Dunmer, Dagon's existance is a fresh memory, and Sheogorath is the absolute expression of chaos in the world.

In The Infernal City and Lord of Souls Malicath indicates that Clavicus Vile is on the lower end of the scale, even when Umbra isn't holding his god-balls in a vice.

Of course, this will enevitablly boil down to the same arguements as the many previous Aedra-vs-Daedra arguements. We can't know the true extent of any divine being simply because their power is tied to their realms. Even Peryite is likely to overpower Dagon in his own domains, whereas Dagon has absolute power in the Deadlands. And without their realms there is no static point of referance, meaning you can't create a point of referance for comparison anyway.

In short, measuring power is pretty much impossible in an absolute sense. By and large, though, i stand by my former list sot the biggest players.

[screendrop]

Daedric princes werent created, they chose to become Daeric Princes after deciding not to take part in the creation of Mundus, they are actually pre-metheric Aedra

I thought "not all <noun> were created equal" was a fairly common figure of speech?

They stuffed the Lore up there I feel, read about the creation of Mundus. It says that "It was first conceptualized by Lorkhan, who then convinced other et'Ada (except the Padomay-aligned et'Ada, i.e., the Daedra) to assist him in its construction. Of these et'Ada, Magnus became the Architect, who drew up the plans for Mundus." and that in another reference, the Aedra choosing not to take part in Lorkhan's plans proceeded to leave to become the "modern Daedra". Interestingly, Daedra also means "Not Our Fathers" or "Not Aedra". This word, Daedra is actually a Human concept. The fact that Humans visualized the Padomay aligned Aedra as evil is actual inconsequentual.

TES lore even states that the Daedra are not neccassarily evil but have intentions that humans tend to allign with evil. In the scope of things, destruction is not a "evil" concept. After all, it was Magnus who flee first, disgusted by his creation and Lorkhan's heart was thrust from Aetherius to create the Red Mountain.

[Lachdonin]

They stuffed the Lore up there I feel, read about the creation of Mundus. It says that "It was first conceptualized by Lorkhan, who then convinced other et'Ada (except the Padomay-aligned et'Ada, i.e., the Daedra) to assist him in its construction. Of these et'Ada, Magnus became the Architect, who drew up the plans for Mundus." and that in another reference, the Aedra choosing not to take part in Lorkhan's plans proceeded to leave to become the "modern Daedra". Interestingly, Daedra also means "Not Our Fathers" or "Not Aedra". This word, Daedra is actually a Human concept. The fact that Humans visualized the Padomay aligned Aedra as evil is actual inconsequentual.

Daedra is actually Aldmeris, and can mean "Not our Ancestors/Fathers", "Better Ancestors/Fathers", "Better than Aedra" etc. depending on the Meri dialect we're talking about. We also know their existance is a little more complicated than "Participated in Creation" vs "Did not participate in Creation". Dagon, for instance, can be linked to a time after Creation, because he opposed Alduin. Alduin is a cycle of destruction requiring Creation in order to exist, which means Dagon (as his former Leaper Demon self) must be younger than Creation. Similarly, Malacath was once Trinimac, who was very much Aedra aligned, but AFTER creation something caused him to switch sides (something related to Boethia, but nothing so literal as being eaten). He had already participated in creation, but became a Daedra anyway.

[Anime_Otaku102]

I thought "not all <noun> were created equal" was a fairly common figure of speech?

They stuffed the Lore up there I feel, read about the creation of Mundus. [...]

Fairly common figure of speech in real life, I mean. That phrase did not imply daedra were created, it simply meant not all daedra are equal.

Edited by Anime_Otaku102, 26 January 2013 - 01:43 AM.

[Tidus44]

I believe that the Dragonborn is a mortal who has the soul of a dragon because of a covenant made between Alessia and Akatosh in order to keep the daedra in their planes of Oblivion and prevent them from entering Nirn. The dragonborn are servants of Akatosh and presumably a part of Akatosh as they have dragon blood and a dragon soul that was provided by Akatosh. The dragonborn is also a gift to the world and mortals as a defender of Nirn.

The dragonborn included a number of individuals, mostly the royalty of Cyrodiil, but there is the possibility that others were also dragonborn and provided specific services in the name of Akatosh. I say this as the Dragonborn in Skyrim is obviously not of the royalty of Cyrodiil and is not part of the line of the Septims.

In the case of the dragonborn in Skyrim, it has been prophesized that he (she) is the last dragonborn and will appear when the world eater appears, in order to serve Akatosh and defend Nirn and mortalkind.

I would suggest that as a part of Akatosh and with the soul and blood of a dragon in order to defend Nirn against the daedra, the Dragonborn is immune to any daedric influence or claim upon death.

I imagine the Dragonborn upon completing his service to Akatosh being left to live out their life as a mortal. Upon their death they return to Akatosh.

[Lachdonin]

The problem with that hypothesis (which is actually supported by in game scholars) is that the Dragonborn pre-date Alessia, which means they cannot be related to the covenant.

The prophesy leading up to Skyrim also does not indicate that they will be the last Dragonborn ever, only that they are the last to survive in the current age. The Dragonborn could parent generations of other dovah blooded heroes, or the actual gift of being Dragonborn may not be related to heredity in the slightest.

[Tidus44]

The problem with that hypothesis (which is actually supported by in game scholars) is that the Dragonborn pre-date Alessia, which means they cannot be related to the covenant.

I'd be interested in the reference you have that identifies that the Dragonborn pre-date the covenant between Alessia and Akatosh. Apparently, you have information that the in game scholars were not aware of and it would be nice to clear up this error in lore.

The prophesy leading up to Skyrim also does not indicate that they will be the last Dragonborn ever, only that they are the last to survive in the current age.

I'd be interested in the reference you have that supports this as well. Since the prophecy is unclear, I only stated what the prophecy says. Since you appear to have further information that clarifies the prophecy, it would be appreciated if you shared the reference that identifies this as fact.

The Dragonborn could parent generations of other dovah blooded heroes, or the actual gift of being Dragonborn may not be related to heredity in the slightest.

As I stated in my post, the typical belief is the passing of dragon blood (and thus being dragonborn) was through the royal linage, there is also belief that other dragonborn did exist as servants of Akatosh. Thus, I am confused by your point here.

Lastly, since you state as fact that the dragonborn is not associated in any way with the covenant between Alessia and Akatosh and that being dragonborn is a gift, please identify who provides this gift.