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Legendary skills? What's the point?


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#1
deadlyillness

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Now that the 1.9.32.08 patch has been officially released post beta. I noticed how the legendary skills worked. However, I don't understand how it works, other than letting you start over from square one on the legendary skill each time you get to 100, repeat as many times as you want, essentially destroying part of the role-playing aspect of specialization and character talents, and further unbalancing the game. Though you could argue that it aids roleplaying, it's not the case. Essentially you can get enough perks to have every perk in the game. What would be the point? Wouldn't an uncapper that just let you get 200 in the skill like the Elys uncapper be better and less buggy because it wasn't released by bethesda, and it's optional? Do they actually require more experience each time or is just some poorly made, poorly optimized patch by Bethesda (mounted combat controls anyone?)? Another thing unclear, is what exactly is the manner that legendary difficulty actually changes difficulty, is there improved AI or is it just a new set of damage multipliers? As far as that goes, difficulty in the form of damage multipliers aren't difficulty, that can be easy to compensate for with some careful perk use and combat multipliers, or exploit the poor vanilla AI to avoid damage. If they didn't do anything to actually improve difficulty with anything other than a new multiplier, what is the point of this patch other than the bug fixes?



#2
resurr3ction

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I actually find the new option very good and perfectly in line with the very free and flexible character development Skyrim offers. The option to make a skill legendary allows you to reach level 81 (or beyond) without having to go for other skills you don't like or don't want to use. It is not free however and you have to start over from 15 and without perks which is very different to Elys uncapper that simply lets you continue over 100. Sure it might not be so sensible from RP perspective but it's gameplay design which is simple and efficient. I personally like it because it removes one of the problems I had in planning my character - there was limited amount of perks and effective level cap depended on skills I chose to use. Neither is the case anymore and I can play as a specialist all the time and still be able to level up without a need to develop skills I don't need or want. Incidentally I find this long term aspect very RP friendly because the game no longer forces you to start being a fighter after your mage skills are maxed if you want to advance futher.

 

I am more concerned about some of the consistency issues with some perks that affect the world and not just player's character.

 

And the legendary difficulty is the same as other difficulties with new damage multipliers: player 0,25 vs enemies 3.0. I found that Master started to be somewhat too easy when you got the best gear and the challenge lessened significantly. So far with legendary difficulty things are fresh again and exciting as the danger is real again. You just have to accept the fact that it is not "AI cheating" but rather rebalancing of incredibly complex damage mechanics.


Edited by resurr3ction, 22 March 2013 - 10:07 AM.


#3
MasterAub

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Hi guys

 

I don't really understand how this legendary system works. Do I need to start over with a new character?

 

I have a warrior type charater level 37 specialized in Archery level 100 (with all perks) in One Handed Weapon level 67, in Smithing level 101 (with all but one perk).

 

But it doesn't seeme that I can go beyond level 100 in Archery or beyond level 101 in Smithing. And it does not seem that my overall level grows when using my bow or when crafting Armors...

 

Basically beside being able to craft legendary Weapons and Armor, this new systeme does not seem to bring me something else from a perk tree or even level perspective.

 

What do I do wrong? Can someone explain "SIMPLY" how this all thing works?

 

Thanks guys



#4
resurr3ction

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Sure,
 
first you need to install patch 1.9 which should be done automatically by Steam afaik. However if you are on the console, the patch was not yet released for them and it should be in coming weeks.
 
- Beside bug fixes the patch offers new difficulty setting found in Settings right after Master difficulty called "Legendary". It sets the damage modifiers to 0.25 for player and 3.0 for enemies.
- Atop of the new difficulty you can make skills Legendary in Skills view (regardless and independent of difficulty setting). When your skill is 100 there will be option in the Skills view to make that skill legendary. When made legendary (after two prompts) the skill is reset to 15, underneath it will appear dragon symbol and all perks in it is returned to you. By that you can advance in that skill again and thus go beyond level 81 and get even more perks and stat points.
 
You do not need to start a new game to use either of these options.
 
PS. It is not possible to have Smithing 101 without cheats/mods.


Edited by resurr3ction, 22 March 2013 - 10:42 AM.


#5
Psimander

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The legendary system works like this:

The player gets a new legendary level account which counts up each time you reset a skill from 100 back to 15. So inofficially a skill level of 345 matches a skill level of 45 with a legendary level of 3. Meaning you would have to raise to 100 and reset 3 times and than raise the skill to 45. Of course this is only roughly, as there are no matches for skill levels like 303, as you don't start rising from zero.

The perk points get returned and must be achieved again. Just like in the Dragonborn DLC possibility. The level requirements seem to ignore the legendary level fact. Meaning that you can't apply them back until you have reached a certain level (although you should be able to do it - why should a 15x assassin rise to skill level 150 to achieve and old perk skill?).

At this time I don't know how the skill calculation formulas make use of the legendary level. For example, I don't know if damage output is higher for sword skill with 15 compared to sword skill with 15 and legendary level 1 (with no perk differences).

It probably comes down to modding to fix this whole system. Magic mods could replace spells with legendary spell sets, etc. Each skill would have to be reworked with mods. Mods would also have to take care about an immediate reassignment of lost perk abilities and tie each perk to legendary level conditions to auto-update its usefulness.

EDIT:

Probably the merchant and loot system has to be fixed too.

Edited by Psimander, 22 March 2013 - 10:59 AM.


#6
MasterAub

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Thank you guys,

 

This is clearer to me...Btw I am on pc and I have installed patch 1.9 of course...



#7
imperium999

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I think you should be able to get Smithing to read 101 if you have a 96 in the skill and the Notched Pickaxe (or something else with that enchantment).



#8
whateveroo

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I am more of wondering what is the cap, how many times can you get reset your skills to 15?

I did already reset a skill-tree 22 times and reached level 104 with a little help from the console and still didn't reach the cap.



#9
FrozenVenom

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wondering what rate legendary levels? will it be the same as before when it was 15 or will it take longer to lvl the skill since it's legendary, i really hope its not the same rate as normal , or ul'd lvl way to quickly... I plain to get to 100 and i don't want to rush there. if anyone knows if its slower or the normal rates, plz do tell , i'm plaining on switching over soon. =)

#10
Ghellura

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FrozenVenom, on 14 Apr 2013 - 06:49, said:
wondering what rate legendary levels? will it be the same as before when it was 15 or will it take longer to lvl the skill since it's legendary, i really hope its not the same rate as normal , or ul'd lvl way to quickly... I plain to get to 100 and i don't want to rush there.

if anyone knows if its slower or the normal rates, plz do tell , i'm plaining on switching over soon. =)

It starts to level slower the higher you get. Idk if this is specific to one skill or your overall level though as I have only reset one skill so far. If you're playing the game normally without powerlevelling like I did the difference won't really be noticeable I'm thinking. I powerlevelled illusion and after 40 resets it takes a lot longer. I just tested getting 100 illusion on my 41st reset and it took 21 harmony casts. It was only 6 casts I think the first few. If anyone knows whether all skills level slower based on your overall level I'd like to know. I'm assuming that the slower levelling is for individual skills rather than overall level because overall level didn't affect how fast your skills levelled in the past (right?). So I guess I've been powerlevelling all wrong ie keep an average of resets over fast levelling skills.

 

All the extra perks are nice to put into convenient places.. like speech, green thumb, etc. Except all the extra magic, health, and stamina kind of offsets the difficulty which can sort of be rebalanced with equipment.

I've been testing some more and it seems that slower levelling is based on per skill although I could be mistaken.

ps actually illusion may still be much faster to powerlevel than any/most other skills even at a high number of resets. I've been trying other master spells and such and they are much slower and more difficult to cast (interruption, killing enemies, find enemies etc...)

(does harmony give xp based on each person/mob affected?)

I don't have dragonhide or mass paralysis yet and I'm curious to find out how those will do.


Edited by Ghellura, 14 April 2013 - 03:49 PM.





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