Mods with SkyUI & MCM requirements

[IsharaMeradin]

 

Still not sure if I want to add such a menu thing to my own mods. Currently customization is done with a simple global variable via the console. If I read it right MCM is supposed to be able to adjust that value without opening the console etc. However the scripting behind it seems a little much for a single variable.

 

Yes, for a single global there's probably not any need to make an MCM--indeed it may be best if you don't create an MCM. Users can install up to about 250 mods, but only about 120 of those can have an MCM. So "unnecessary" MCMs that take up those slots can actually cause problems for users who want to install a lot of mods with MCMs.

 

Thank you for that. So only the big mods with lots of adjustments should really bother with an MCM menu. That pretty much means that unless I combine all my mods into one, I've no need to create such a thing for my own.

[schlangster]

IsharaMeradin, on 12 Apr 2013 - 02:50, said:

Does anyone know if the growning number of mods that use SkyUI & MCM as requirements are actually functional without them?

Is it a case by case thing?

Yes, it's a case by case thing. MCM is designed so the dependency is optional, but for some authors it's not practical to support two menu systems at the same time. I wouldn't do it either to be honest.

Please do not hate, bash, flame or what have you because I'm in the minority and actually do not like SkyUI or additional interfaces/menus in my game.

"nagware"

Well done.

 

Classic case of "doesn't want to use a mod, uses it anyway, gets angry at the mod for apparently forcing itself into the game".

Edited April 23, 2013 by schlangster

[IsharaMeradin]

 

 

Please do not hate, bash, flame or what have you because I'm in the minority and actually do not like SkyUI or additional interfaces/menus in my game.

>"nagware"

Well done.

 

Classic case of "doesn't want to use a mod, uses it anyway, gets angry at the mod for apparently forcing itself into the game".

 

 

I'm sorry. I thought I used a mod that was intended to remove the aspects of the mod I didn't want so that I could try the one aspect out that I was unsure of. I guess I totally got it wrong.

[schlangster]

IsharaMeradin, on 24 Apr 2013 - 03:47, said:

I'm sorry. I thought I used a mod that was intended to remove the aspects of the mod I didn't want so that I could try the one aspect out that I was unsure of. I guess I totally got it wrong.

No, you got that right. What you got wrong was the nagware part. Those are warning messages that are supposed to help you identifying conflicts with other mods. In case of SkyUI-Away, these conflicts are intended and unavoidable, that's why in the description it says "3) Disable menu warning messages in SkyUI's Advanced page in the Configuration Menu".

[IsharaMeradin]

Explain how one does that. There is no configuration menu for SkyUI.

 

Installed SKSE scripts (I remove them when modding)

Installed SkyUI Installed SkyUI-Away

Installed Achieve That! -- an MCM intensive mod

Installed Thieves Guild Requirements -- a mod with MCM settings

Started my no-mod save

Accessed the MCM menu via the game settings menu

Here is what I saw: http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/560973084141542633/73FEC9EC80841BEE962FBE5CFC010C6AE674C2D8/

 

There is no entry for SkyUI. How then does one adjust it?

 

Edit:

I just tried with SkyUI only and there was nothing in the MCM menu. For the life of me, I've no idea how to access such a configuration menu. Screenshots on SkyUI indicate there is one and that it is part of the MCM setup. However, there is nothing there.

 

So... If there is no way to turn off those messages then they do indeed become annoying and can be labled as "nagware". Perhaps something has changed since instructions were made and someone dropped the ball. In any case does not give anyone the right to state that I'm complaining or angry when I indicated what happened. Text does not convey emotion or feeling.

Edited April 24, 2013 by IsharaMeradin

[schlangster]

Hm, if there's a lot of scripts running and you install several MCM mods at once together with SkyUI, it may happen that some of them take another reload until they show up in the list. Maybe that's the problem here. Try saving and loading that save and see if that helps. Edited April 24, 2013 by schlangster

[IsharaMeradin]

schlangster, on 24 Apr 2013 - 19:19, said:

Hm, if there's a lot of scripts running and you install several MCM mods at once together with SkyUI, it may happen that some of them take another reload until they show up in the list. Maybe that's the problem here. Try saving and loading that save and see if that helps.

See the edit on the previous post.

 

 

Edit:

So my process was this.

Launch game

Load no-mod save

Test mcm menu

Exit game

 

First session, no SkyUI entry in the MCM yet everything else SkyUI related functioned

Second session, SkyUI entry shows up.

 

There are no mods other than SkyUI. If it is script lag as you suggest then SkyUI is already too intensive for my computer.

 

2nd Edit:

Removing SkyUI & SKSE scripts and launching via normal game launcher apparently flushed whatever SkyUI put in memory.

 

By removing SkyUI & SKSE scripts I was able to after reinstalling them repeat the inability of the SkyUI mcm menu not showing up. Reloading the same save within the same session did not allow the SkyUI entry to appear in the menu. Saving and loading a new save allowed it to show in the same game session. The prior test showed that it would appear when using the initial save on a second game session.

 

It doesn't make sense. I'll ask over there at the SkyUI threads, perhaps they are aware already.

Edited April 24, 2013 by IsharaMeradin

[schlangster]

See the edit on the previous post. It is not a scripting issue.

It could happen even with SkyUI alone, be sure to try save+reload. If that really doesn't help, entering "setStage SKI_ConfigManagerInstance 1" in the console might fix it.

But beyond that, the only known issue I'm aware of is the mentioned

- Sometimes it may take another save+reload until a new MCM mod appears in the list.

Edit:

There are no mods other than SkyUI. If it is script lag as you suggest then SkyUI is already too intensive for my computer.

Might be your computer then, or just vanilla scripts interfering. I only know from personal experience that when using SkyUI alone, it never happened to me. In any case it's nothing worry about, it's just a timing issue with one script starting faster than the other. This can only ever happen when running SkyUI for the first time on a fresh save game, so it's an issue that resolves itself. Edited April 24, 2013 by schlangster

[steve40]

Similar to IsharaMeradin, I find that on the rare occasion the SkyUI MCM menu doesn't appear (using a clean save just before exiting Helgen with no mods). Quitting and restarting the game usually fixes it. Oddly, this doesn't seem to happen for other mods that use MCM, only SkyUI.

[schlangster]

As mentioned before, it's a known issue that is tricky to fix because there are no reliable synchronization primitives in Papyrus.

It doesn't make sense.

Well, it is easily explained:

When starting SkyUI on a fresh save for the first time, you may have to save and reload (the game you just saved) to make all entries show up.

 

The detailed technical reason why this happens is that there is a script, which manages all the menus. After each game (re)load, this script asks in the room "hello, are there any new menus?". In rare occasions this request may be sent before a menu has been initialized. By rare I mean Papyrus decides when to initialize and it may be instant, or it may be after 5 seconds if there are other things going on at the moment. Anyway, if the menu is initialized too late, it may miss the first request. But the menu manager will give the menu another chance to register because it asks again after each subsequent reload.

 

I know it's not optimal, but I tried to fix it once by implementing a lock/wait mechanism in Papyrus and that went horribly wrong.

A simple workaround for this issue is "load a game, if a menu is missing: quicksave, quickload".

Edited April 26, 2013 by schlangster