wulfharth

Can we just give kinggath all the money and maybe set up sim settlements expansions as their own category?

I know there are topics about paid mods. I was deeply involved in that fight. I'm not even trying to talk about that. I was talking about Bethesda taking advantage of mod authors. This Skyrim "Now with Mods!" thing got me thinking. I see that and them intentionally leaving stolen mods up for weeks and it makes me wonder if they deserve this additional financial gain without offering fair compensation. Do they really just look at mod authors as an untapped source of free labor? If this particular conundrum has been beaten to death, then I'm sorry I dug it up. It just popped into my head and where else could I have a conversation about it? I was also wondering because I'm getting these requests to re-post some mods I pulled down, and I'm having a hard time seeing any reason I should help Bethesda sell their new (old) game.

Since mod authors are growing Bethesda's market share on consoles and they obviously expect the mod authors to sell their Skyrim re-release for them, does anyone else think that Bethesda should have to pay the people who's labor is driving their profits? I'm not saying that mods are the only think good about their games, but they are a pretty big reason for their popularity. I will admit that I may be completely stupid or in the wrong place to talk about this, but I was curious what other people thought.

In response to post #39525245. #39528920, #39529290, #39529630, #39533865, #39542225, #39543125, #39543345, #39543435, #39544400, #39545515, #39546175 are all replies on the same post. I don't know if you are aware, but I'm not a moderator. I didn't censor anyone. But I don't see why I should sit quietly and let people talk about how terrible mod authors are because they don't want to be slaves to leeches and greedy corporations. What about my free speech? I don't deserve it because I disagree with you? The big reason that moderators are banning people (I assume) is that the open discussion is about Bethesda's behavior or lack there of, not whether or not theft is wrong. The mod theft discussion is over. It's a moot point. Even Bethesda said it's wrong. Every time someone tries to argue that point here, they should get the boot. Just because you have free speech doesn't mean you get to go into a privately owned site and be contrary. It's like you walked into a wolf den and violently argued that they need to be vegetarian.

In response to post #39525245. #39528920, #39529290, #39529630, #39533865, #39542225, #39543125, #39543345 are all replies on the same post. It wouldn't break my heart if you wanted to see yourself out. Telling artists that they have no right to the control and distribution of their work is fascist. That is very black and white. Bethesda is an American company. The laws are pretty cut and dry here. Stealing is illegal. Copyright infringement is illegal. Piracy is illegal. Call it what you want. It is wrong. There are no subtle nuances to this issue. I know you really want there to be, but that comes from a place of greed deep down in your heart. You want mods on console. That is and will always be at the discretion of each artist.

In response to post #39500700. #39503365, #39504175, #39504525 are all replies on the same post. There are several communities where modders can wander off to be insulated from the end USERS. Skywind is a pretty big one that comes to mind. The real point that I'm trying to make is that Bethesda wants mods on consoles. That's why they made their site. It grows their market share to have mods on consoles. The reason they are acting so slowly to remove these stolen mods is that they make more money the longer they are on there. Whenever whatever nude mod hit their xbox section I bet they had a spike for xbox sales that day. They will do as little as possible to protect the rights of mod authors because it interferes with their bottom line. If mod authors want any rights or control of their mods, they will have to unite and fight for it. That sounds a little dramatic, but you know what I mean.

In response to post #39500700. #39503365 is also a reply to the same post. If Skeletor made the damn sword than he gets to make the rules. One or two more of these little freetard entitle-a-thons and mod authors will create their own closed communities.

Anyone who knows anything about labor unions knows that companies will never treat anyone with fairness unless it is to their benefit. That's just a fact. If the workers form a union they can actually influence policy. I think the best bet to resolve these recurring issues with Bethesda is for the mod authors to organize. If you make all the mods, and the mods make the game more profitable, you should have a say in the policies regarding them. Get together and go on strike. I think Elianora is the only one who handled the situation appropriately. Blocking your mods is the best way to say, "These are my mods and I have the authority over them." Now imagine if all the mod authors did the same thing. Do you think they might get off their asses and change policy? Mod authors wouldn't even have to stop modding, just stop sharing until Bethesda policed their site.

In response to post #25025599. #25028149, #25035034, #25047559, #25047774, #25048554, #25050269, #25099939, #25101949, #25103094, #25103539, #25108729, #25109249, #25110729, #25114309, #25115444, #25117929, #25126749, #25130219, #25131554, #25133174, #25134429, #25135179, #25137384, #25138564, #25138789, #25153019, #25167894, #25175704 are all replies on the same post. It wasn't necessary I was just talking out of hurt. Everybody can be stupid and mean once in a while. Eventually this fight will die down and we can all be friends again, and go back to talking about skyrim. Even if I became the president, I'd still make mods. It's my greatest joy. And I'm sure I'd dive into every fight making a fool of myself. That's part of the fun.

In response to post #25025599. #25028149, #25035034, #25047559, #25047774, #25048554, #25050269, #25099939, #25101949, #25103094, #25103539, #25108729, #25109249, #25110729, #25114309, #25115444, #25117929, #25126749, #25130219, #25131554, #25133174, #25134429, #25135179, #25137384, #25138564, #25138789 are all replies on the same post. Agreements work in both directions. They can't say, "You can't own mods, so you can't sell them." Then say,"We changed our mind. You can sell them." Then say,"No let's go back to the first standard." After amending it once, they would have had to reissue a new EULA, and everyone would have had to click agree. They threw away their own contract so the doors are now wide open. Of course it doesn't matter. Donations that go to individuals to compensate them for their time and effort aren't profits. They can try to sue for 0% profit, but that would be silly. Additionally, if I make a model in 3ds max, sculpt it in ZBrush, and composite my textures in Photoshop, they would have to compensate me for all three programs before laying claim to that model. That software is very expensive.

In response to post #25150414. Mod users are very very important. Mod authors are very important. Of course mod authors are also mod users, so they get the cumulative importance of both roles. So mathematically they are more important than people who only fill one role. Why is everyone so offended by that statement? It seems pretty reasonable. I've worked on mods for myself that I never released. That proves that modding can exist without a broad audience.

Paying freelance artists to make any model you want is legal. However trying to sell the game or DLC that contains trademark protected concepts or models there of is not. If it's a free project, you can do whatever you want.

In response to post #25025599. #25028149, #25035034, #25047559, #25047774, #25048554, #25050269, #25099939, #25101949, #25103094, #25103539, #25108729, #25109249, #25110729, #25114309, #25115444, #25117929, #25126749, #25130219, #25131554, #25133174, #25134429, #25135179, #25137384 are all replies on the same post. Ask Zenimax/Bethesda how well that worked out for them when they went after the oculus rift kickstarter. They got their little butts polished. In America the worker has plenty of rights. A company can't just take your work. They will try though. If anything, they can ask for a cut or buy the rights. That's about it. seeing as they violated their own EULA, it wouldn't be useful in court. Vesuvius- you can donate to Skywind. They need to pay a lot in hosting fees. I gave them $50 a few months back. Go check out what they're working on. It's impressive.

In response to post #25025599. #25028149, #25035034, #25047559, #25047774, #25048554, #25050269, #25099939, #25101949, #25103094, #25103539, #25108729, #25109249, #25110729, #25114309, #25115444, #25117929, #25126749, #25130219, #25131554, #25133174, #25134429 are all replies on the same post. I get a chuckle out of the fact that Zenimax dodged the bullet on this one. They are Bethesda's sue happy money grubbing evil overlords. I would say the whole thing came from them. All of that is moot now. I'm talking about bigger better mods being developed and funded through kickstarter. It has happened and will again. Steam gets nothing. Bethesda gets nothing. It all goes to the modders(-5%). That is the hosting fee. If you are a modder that has no faith in the pointless donate button and want to receive fair compensation. Build up a team and start a mod on Kickstarter. Tiny money grab mods need not apply.

In response to post #25025599. #25028149, #25035034, #25047559, #25047774, #25048554, #25050269, #25099939, #25101949, #25103094, #25103539, #25108729, #25109249, #25110729, #25114309, #25115444, #25117929, #25126749, #25130219 are all replies on the same post. I'm not going to say that every paid modder had the best of intentions, but I will say they deserve the right to seek compensation. I'm not saying you're a jerk because you disagree. But it would make my life easier if you did. :smile: In the system I'm proposing there is technically zero profit (free mod) and the 5% is for hosting costs. The 95% is payroll to the artists. So the cost is technically 100%. It's not really a hypothetical. There is one mod like this now. I would link but I'm on my phone.